Breast Growth For Genetic Males

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(01-01-2022, 05:26 AM)Lotus Wrote: [ -> ]
(31-12-2021, 08:44 AM)arl234 Wrote: [ -> ]

Thanks a lot for the answer. I appreciate you taking your time! I have ordered all of it. What additional things are for the formation of the breast buds?

You're welcome, i.hope helps you. I've been meaning to add a pituitary supplement when taking MSM and Calcium. These three items (together) help to stimulate a certain pathway that can with breast buds. Give it a try, and oh boy, when I take these together good things happen for me.

Hi Lotus, apologies if you already answered this somewhere (I looked and didn't find an answer)....What would you recommend as a pituitary supplement?

(25-01-2022, 11:41 PM)2fakenames Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Lotus, apologies if you already answered this somewhere (I looked and didn't find an answer)....What would you recommend as a pituitary supplement?

I'm replying for Lotus here, but I got raw pituitary capsules, something generic, but its raw so should be good. I'm not yet sure about dosing, been on one cap per day for few weeks now and there's a difference. Although I did start progesterone almost the same time so there's that. I'm interested to know better about the dosage, I thought to start easy to not overdo it.

(01-01-2022, 05:37 AM)Alexis P Wrote: [ -> ]Despite not being able to pursue much NBE i am still very much fascinated and inspired by your researches. <3

Thank you Alexis ? I wish I had more time to post research, I've uncovered some unique topics to discuss with everyone. Covid (omicron) decided to pay me a visit a few weeks ago. Strange, I've steered clear of covid19 for two years and just like that I got omicron. I'm still dealing with fatigue and some respiratory issues. But the fatigue is a pain, it robs me of any motivation I have. My symptoms were mild and lasted about 10 days. It also took about 3 weeks to regain my taste and smell. Anyways, a great way to start 2022.

So here's an important study that focused on the histology (biopsy specimens of breast tissue) of 14 MTF subjects, granted it's a small sample size, but nonetheless important findings. Here's a couple of examples:

Quote:male-to-female transsexuals who had received estrogens and progestins for prolonged periods have breast tissue that histologically simulates that of the female, that is, with acinar and lobular formation.

Cyproterone acetate is a progestative drug, whereas flutamide and bicalutamide are not, and progestative drugs are known to stimulate the formation of acini and lobules in females

Translation, progesterone and estradiol produce female breasts. Read the full study and you'll see that the individuals who stuck with progestative drugs (cyproterone) and estradiol had the best breast outcomes. Based on this information I decided to try my own variation by taking micronized progesterone and oral estradiol, and by golly the shit works. I haven't experienced a growth spurt in some years, needless to say I had that old feeling of sore breasts after trying the two together. I measured an inch or two of new growth, and it happened quickly. So, this lines up to what the study found in the breast biopsies.

For myself I'm on HRT. So, I've taken 100mg of micronized progesterone with 2-4mg of oral estradiol along with low dose aspirin. I think the key is finding what ratio of progestative drugs to oral estradiol works best for each individual. Chemical castration is considered to be about 50 ng/dL of Total T (testosterone). In my opinion you can still have sexual function but you'll notice a substantial drop in semen production. Estradiol should be in the typical range of 200 pg/mL for breast growth and feminization. Anything above the T threshold will result in incomplete breast growth...or moobish looking. Notice bicalutamide is non progestative.

An NBE version of this could be PM combined with something like wild yam. I like WY because it has diosgenin, and diosgenin blocks 16α-hydroxyestrone (16OH) which is the toxic form of estrogen and is carcinogenic. Enhancing the production of 2-OH form is beneficial for breast health. Diosgenin stimulates growth of mammary epithelium, increase in DNA content and the number of ducts & terminal end buds. I'm researching whether WY is a progestative compound though.

I've tried rectal administration of progesterone, then sublingual (messy lol), buccal and nothing happened. I believe progesterone needs a liver activation, just like PM needs to pass through the liver to activate deoxymiroestrol.

(30-01-2021, 03:40 AM)Lotus Wrote: [ -> ]In past research I've learned there's more progesterone in glandular tissue and more prolactin in fat tissue. Progesterone stimulates fat deposition in breasts, but is catabolic to protein metabolism, meaning it burns fat too.

I believe prolactin needs to stimulated with the above methods too. More to follw

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The Science:

Short-Term and Long-Term Histologic Effects of Castration and Estrogen Treatment on Breast Tissue of 14 Male-to-Female Transsexuals in Comparison With Two Chemically Castrated Men

Kanhai, Robert C.J. M.D.; Hage, J. Joris M.D., Ph.D.; van Diest, Paul J. M.D., Ph.D.; Bloemena, Elisabeth M.D., Ph.D.; Mulder, J. Wiebe M.D., Ph.D.
Author Information
The American Journal of Surgical Pathology: January 2000 - Volume 24 - Issue 1 - p 74
FREE

Abstract
The histologic changes induced in the mammary gland of male-to-female transsexuals have not yet been reported in the literature. We studied the histologic changes induced by chemical and surgical castration and estrogen therapy in the breasts of 14 such patients, with particular reference to acinar and lobular formation. To objectify the influence of cross-sex treatment, the histologic findings were compared with those in two men treated hormonally for prostate cancer. The slight increase in the plasma estrogen-to-androgen ratio seen in idiopathic gynecomastia usually does not induce acinar and lobular formation in the male breast. In men treated with non progestative antiandrogens for prostate cancer, only moderate acinar and lobular formation occurs. Only in male-to-female transsexuals in whom progestative chemical castration is combined with feminizing estrogen therapy will full acinar and lobular formation occur with hormonally stimulated nuclei and pseudolactational changes. Hence, combined progestative antiandrogens and estrogens are necessary for genetically male breast tissue to mimic the natural histology of the female breast. Orchidectomy does not contribute to this. Apocrine metaplasia may occur in breasts of male-to-female transsexuals, but so far, only four cases of breast cancer in male-to-female transsexuals have been documented.
https://journals.lww.com/ajsp/Fulltext/2..._of.9.aspx

so you think taking oral estradiol and micronized progesterone is good? Sounds like everything gives you a growth spurt.

Could it be that once you have big boobs, everything will make them grow?

(01-01-2022, 07:38 AM)arl234 Wrote: [ -> ]

tptp?

How so?

(01-01-2022, 03:31 PM)DruLactin Wrote: [ -> ]As an idea for NBE, imagine if somebbody made a general priority list for NBE, like what methods should be tried before others are considered.

-Aria

Hi Aria, I get the gist of your idea. I see potential if tanner stages were tied into it. Meaning like what steps are necessary to achieve breast buds (as in the first step of breast growth)...or stages, if you will. Though you'll have different opinions from BN members, which is understandable. Great question, we love fresh ideas. Tongue

(25-01-2022, 11:53 PM)HelloDiDi Wrote: [ -> ]
(25-01-2022, 11:41 PM)2fakenames Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Lotus, apologies if you already answered this somewhere (I looked and didn't find an answer)....What would you recommend as a pituitary supplement?

I'm replying for Lotus here, but I got raw pituitary capsules, something generic, but its raw so should be good. I'm not yet sure about dosing, been on one cap per day for few weeks now and there's a difference. Although I did start progesterone almost the same time so there's that. I'm interested to know better about the dosage, I thought to start easy to not overdo it.

Hi 2fakenames and Lara,

The pituitary supplement helps trigger the hypothalamus pituitary adrenal axis (HPA) into signaling new instructions to produce certain hormone signals. And by combing progesterone with MSM, Calcium, Vitamin D3, and now either E2 (estradiol) or PM we facilitate the magic in the estrogen receptor mitochondria to cell reaction (aka-new growth). I'd start by following the recommended daily amount on the supplement information...then adjust if necessary.
Thanks Lara for the assist. Smile

Wow, Progesterone shortens the recovery time of covid19. I wish I would've known this when I contracted omicron. Unfortunately I stopped all hrt meds while recovering from covid, had I kept Progesterone in the rotation my recovery could've been shorter.

COVID-19 and Progesterone: Part 1. SARS-CoV-2, Progesterone and its potential clinical use
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...po=15.4255

COVID–19 and Progesterone: Part 2. Unraveling High Severity, Immunity Patterns, Immunity grading, Progesterone and its potential clinical use
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8349364/

Hey Lotus! Am sorry to hear about you taking omicron, a friend of mine took the same variant in the same period and told me about his experience with the loss of smell and taste. I hope you are doing much better now, especially regarding that chronic fatigue you were left with. I can somewhat imagine it, and it must be horrible.
Pheraps now you will have more time to chill, recover and focus on your researches!
By the way, i wanted to thank you for the research you shared here, it is pretty interesting to see how trans people end up with the same mammary glands as cis-girls if they take progestative antiandrogens!
Also about your take on Wild Yam, thank you for making one example for people in NBE, i appreciate it very much ahah.

Definetly am going to try wild yam soon if that's the case, oh emh i think my USP progesterone cream says in its bottle "from wild yam", does it mean i am already taking it or the progesterone is not real progesterone?

Oh and my apologies for when i asked for "special formula", i couldn't be more vague than that lmao. Anyways, i remember reading in the Project X thread you posting about a cream or a supplement which made nipples and areolas grow in already 10 days. Can't find this anymore, if you remember too about it, i'd be all ears Wink

Hi Alexis,

(27-01-2022, 08:31 PM)Alexis P Wrote: [ -> ]Pheraps now you will have more time to chill, recover and focus on your researches!
By the way, i wanted to thank you for the research you shared here, it is pretty interesting to see how trans people end up with the same mammary glands as cis-girls if they take progestative antiandrogens!

You're welcome, I'll definetly have more time next week for sure, I'm having back surgery (to make repairs) early next week. So if I make posts that are gibberish Tongue

you'll know it's the pain meds talking.

There's a difference between USP progesterone and wild yam progesterone. USP progesterone is bioidentical (as in made by humans) as opposed to wild yam made in a lab. WY isn't progestative, apologies. Though in the absence of using estradiol it helps with aveolargenesis (ductal growth).
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Here's some research I put together based on science literature. Progesterone suppresses activation and crosstalk between PR (progesterone receptor) and prolactin/Stat5 signaling to inhibit milk protein gene expression. These changes are reflected in reduced activation of JAK2 and PAK1, resulting in downregulation of pSTAT5.

However, MSM stimulates the activation of the Jak2/STAT5 signaling pathway to help secrete milk protein. MSM also stimulates GH (growth hormone) induced activation of Jak2/STAT5b and prolactin production.

Why is this important?, progesterone downregulates the Jak2/STAT5 pathway that inhibits milk proteins and affect terminal end buds (TEB's which are the branch like structures that fill out breasts) growth and alveologenesis. Taking MSM helps to restore what progesterone destroys during its protein metabolism. We also learned progesterone is catabolic to protein expression in breast tissue. Now we can address this catabolism (breakdown of proteins) by adding amino acids to the mix...possibly tyrosine and proline to strengthen the protein loss. Or possibly consuming more protein in our diet.
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Regulation of the JAK2-STAT5 Pathway by Signaling Molecules in the Mammary Gland
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33282878/
Scribble promotes alveologenesis in the pregnant mammary gland for milk productionScribble promotes alveologenesis in the pregnant mammary gland for milk production
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32213656/
Prolactin regulates ZNT2 expression through the JAK2/STAT5 signaling pathway in mammary cells
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19494234/
Jak2 Is an Essential Tyrosine Kinase Involved in Pregnancy-Mediated Development of Mammary Secretory Epithelium
https://academic.oup.com/mend/article/16...ogin=false