Breast Growth For Genetic Males

(21-12-2014, 09:25 PM)Lotus Wrote: [ -> ]

(21-12-2014, 09:11 PM)pom19 Wrote: [ -> ]

(21-12-2014, 09:06 PM)Lotus Wrote: [ -> ]

(21-12-2014, 08:44 PM)pom19 Wrote: [ -> ]Lotus, were your nipples this big before NBE? POM

No not at all, they where normal male size, which is an "1 inch to 1 1/4 inches. Progesterone cream around the edges and some early nipple suction jump started those things lol. Gotta make sure PC is bio-identical and no parabens, and don't apply PC directly to the aerolas, it has the potential of producing liver spots on them.

--------------------------------------------
2 questions:
1-what brand PC do you recommend?
2-If not applying on areola, then where?

I've tried a few, and by far this is the best, the others would give intense spikes of aggression, but when I switched to the smoky brand it was a world of difference.

https://www.smokymountainnaturals.com

I'll have to post this article on using progesterone cream for breast growth, I have to find it. Lol.

Apply directly to the breasts, avoiding the aerolas, it spreads evenly and its non-greasy, just let it air dry (a few minutes).

They also sell on Amazon.

Hi Lotus -

Thanks for the link. I had not stumbled across the page before. Do you know anything about their hormone test kit? Any thoughts?

spanky

Depends on what you're muttering myboobs lol, if it's he's an A-hole, lol I've heard it all before, Rolleyes

Love it!

(21-12-2014, 10:10 PM)elainecd Wrote: [ -> ]what kind of iso? and don't say "Jumping Jacks" lol

Ok well don't laugh at the zombie animation, but I do something like this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=CReZF4-PjO0

(22-12-2014, 01:03 PM)spanky Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Lotus -

Thanks for the link. I had not stumbled across the page before. Do you know anything about their hormone test kit? Any thoughts?

spanky

It's from ZRT labs, it's offered on Amazon too. For $59.95 it tests for 2 hormones, which is reasonable. A siliva test measures free hormones, the kind that's available for target tissues, imo I'd get testosterone, progesterone, E2 and dhea tested for $120.00. It's close to this offer for 5 hormones @ $158.95, but what the heck, have cortisol tested as it relates to stress.

http://www.amazon.com/Hormone-Imbalance-Saliva-Essential-Hormones/dp/B004BTCQ26/ref=sr_1_3?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1419299488&sr=1-3

Saliva Testing.

Non-invasive home test kit.

Saliva testing, unlike serum tests, measures the bioavailable (“free”) levels of steroid hormones, correlating with symptomatology and potential deficiency

From ZRT:
Samples are collected by the patient at home, allowing convenient timing of collection especially for cortisol, which must be measured at specific times of the day or night

Convenience of collection allows frequent sampling, e.g., during a menstrual cycle to determine fertility problems

Hormone levels can be assessed during topical hormone supplementation

Saliva collection avoids the stress of a blood draw, which can affect levels of cortisol

Hormones are stable in saliva at room temperature for up to 2 weeks, allowing for worldwide shipment and convenient mailing of samples for testing

Saliva testing is less expensive than conventional serum testing

(18-02-2014, 07:04 PM)Lotus Wrote: [ -> ](Best for normal tests ranges)
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_rang...lood_tests

• (Best)How do I interpret my results:
  http://www.canaryclub.org/mainmenu-teste...icles.html
  

• (Good)What a Blood Test Measures
  http://www.johnleemd.com/store/saliva_serum.html
  

• (Good)A copy of a sample test report:
  http://www.lef.org/pdf/BloodTestSamples/..._Panel.pdf
  

• Are the same tests available for blood spot as saliva?
  http://www.zrtlab.com/blood-spot-questions
  

• FSH Level Chart
  http://www.buzzle.com/articles/fsh-level-chart.html
  

• (Good)Thyroid Function Tests
  Normal Laboratory Values
  http://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/t...tion-tests
  

I pulled up this valuable info from Monika as it relates to hormone testing:

Also, this is a good self assessment test:
http://www.theantiagingdoctor.com/Survey.htm

(07-01-2014, 09:55 PM)MonikaT Wrote: [ -> ]Lotus, my only issue with Transfemme/BB is that all sites that mention BO and what it is alleged to do can ultimately be traced back to TF/BB, and I just want some independent corroboration that BO reprograms the pituitary to convert T into E. I'm something of a natural-born skeptic and I'd like independent proof.

CK, as for blood tests, you need total T, SHBG, albumin (which is usually part of a complete metabolic panel that is very common), and estradiol at the very least. I find estradiol a very hard sell unless you are experiencing a lot of breast pain and growth. Most medicos refuse to order it.

Estradiol should be 21.80-30.11 pg/mL. Anything higher or lower in a male is associated with a shorter lifespan. http://www.lef.org/protocols/male_reprod...ion_01.htm Look for the box near the bottom about estrogen balance.

Total T is largely useless, but most doctors cling to it as the standard, and the reference range is wide (291-739 ng/dL at my lab) and lab-dependent.

With total T, SHBG, and albumin, you can calculate free T here: http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm I have to assume this is an accurate calculator since Johns Hopkins recommended its use on a reference card aimed at doctors about male hypogonadism.

Free T should be in the range of 9-30 ng/dL. http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/t...tive/83686

If you want blood tests and don't want to ask a doctor or can't get the doctor to order them for you, check out The Life Extension Foundation www.lef.org. They offer all kinds of hormone panels, individual tests, and recommended male or female panels, etc. They also offer an annual discount period roughly from April-June. Members get an additional discount. They do their testing through Labcorp so if you have a nearby Labcorp lab, they send you a requisition, you go, get the blood drawn, and LEF mails and/or emails you the results. If there is no Labcorp in your area, they send you a kit, you go to whatever lab is near you, pay a fee for drawing the blood, then ship the vials off to be tested, etc.

Thanks, Lotus!

:O amazing! I love how firm they look, I want that

Did you achieve those results with just your program you stated on the first page?

Starting Doses
----------------------
PM -500 mg tab,6 tabs,total=3000mg (am,noon,pm)
SP -450mg 4x a day (am,noon,pm)
PC -1/4 teaspoon (applied to chest and wrists) 2x a week
Massage -when ever you can,5 min ea. side
Calcium - 600mg 3x a day (am,noon,pm)
Revised Doses
-----------------------------
PM 500 mg tab,6 tabs,total= 3000 mg (am,noon,pm)
Spearmint caps -400 mg 3x(am,noon,pm)
PC - 1/4 teaspoon (applied to chest and wrists)3x a week
Calcium -600mg 3x a day (am,noon,pm)
Massage 5 min same as above

or did you tweek it some more? I tried to go through out this thread to see if you made changes but 103 pages is a lot and I didn't find any the pages I did look, but regardless, if it is that same program-- wow! I am so taken back XD I have been drinking spearmint tea and its helped a bit but nothing like that.. PM and PC I really wanted to try..
beautiful.

Sorry missB for the late reply, and thank you, one could say the same about you.

Over the course of time the program has changed several times. I kept some records of growth, I posted a graph several pages back, my apologies for the 103 pages of info , hopefully you weren't harmed in the process of reading them, lol.

I dunno, I tend to reverse engineer things of NBE nature, for instance: if breasts are 85% fat, how do I change that fat percentage towards the benefit of NBE. My answer (to myself lol) increase healthy fats along with more breast isometric's and breathing techniques, it really does make a difference. There are numerous iso's, some are done without anyone knowing.

Quality Products have a HUGE impact towards growth, I can only say there is no "Gold Standard" with regards to certain brands of PM or other products. Some come close though, and then the concern of all the costs involved could slow a program. Still there are low cost options towards NBE. Take a page from karren and no herbs are involved, only negative pressure, minus the device, the monthly costs are very low if any. Massage, subliminal and diet can work too. I'll have to update the lastest NBE foods list, although I get bummed when I see the foods against NBE and then I'm like "hey, I like that stuff" lol.

When's the last time you did a reboot to your program?, or even a cleanse?. After a while we can desensitize our receptors, just a thought. I also wouldn't wait long nursing a failed program, for me that was 30 days, from some that's not long enough, but what's long enough?

Probably the best program was

PM, resihi, white peony root, dandelion root. Here's a list of past programs. I look at those now and say holy cow, I did that?.

(22-07-2014, 09:54 PM)Lotus Wrote: [ -> ]Past programs with amounts:

1st program,
FG, RC, SP, NR
2nd was
PM, PC, Spearmint
3rd
BO, CS, PC, GH, HOPS (limited though)
4th
PM, FG, Spearmint, Hops, PC,
5th
PM/BO, FG, Hops, PC, spearmint
6th
PM, FG, LR, NR, Hops, PABA,
Final
PM (extract), WP, LR, PC, Dandelion

(14-02-2014, 05:36 AM)~Lotus~ Wrote: [ -> ]*************
Past Program
♦ PM-extract High 120:1 potency 4 drops sublingual, (1 drop is 40 mg) Pueraria Mirifica-The most potent phytoestrogen, targets E receptors, minor anti-androgen (daidzien)

♦ BO-250 mg 4-ea. daily------------(pro-aromatase, 5-AR inhibiting, estrogenic) alternated

♦ FG -900 mg total am-pm Fenugreek-Prolactin stimulate, increases production of estrogen, phytoestrogen, adaptogen

♦ Hops-310 mg 3x-daily-----------------(activates alpha estrogen receptors, influences prolactin, and increases other estrogenic responses, also interacts with the progesterone receptors)

♦ B 6 - 100 mg daily

♦ Multi Amino-acid 500 mg 2-3x daily-----------(Growth Hormone)

♦ Multivitamin 1x daily

♦ Reishi Mushroom 600 mg 3x daily--------------(5-alpha reductase) Red Reishi-Significantly reduces levels of 5-alpha reductase (DHT)

♦ Licorice Root 450 mg 1x daily 3 days a week (T,TH,Sat)----(pro-aromatase, activates alpha, beta estrogen receptors, blocks 5-ar)

♦ Stinging Nettle Root 500 mg 1 tabs. daily----petitioner(increases estrogen and testosterone) Binds to SHBG

♦ PABA 500 mg 2x-----(Decreases breakdown of estrogen in your body so you have more free estrogen)

♦ Dandelion root-Caps 60 515 mg Caps 1x daily--(upregulates estrogen receptors so your body uses the estrogen you are putting in.)

♦ Progesterone Cream Balances out estrogen, strong 5 alpha reductase (converts T to DHT), adds to breast growth (ducts and elongation) 4 oz Cream- 1/4 teaspoon 4 x weekly

**************************************

So what if there was way to influence an estrogen action in the Leydig cells since they already include estrogen receptors. Well, a pathway needs to be established. Here is one possible source, or could be a possible action.

Sperm, a source of estrogen
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1518866/
Environ Health Perspect. Oct 1995; 103(Suppl 7): 59–62.
PMCID: PMC1518866
Research Article
Sperm, a source of estrogen.

Other info: it's being researched already.

Estrogen signaling in testicular cells.

Aromatase transforms irreversibly androgens into estrogens and is present in the endoplasmic reticulum of various tissues including the mammalian testis. In rat all testicular cells except peritubular cells express aromatase. Indeed in adult rat germ cells (pachytene spermatocytes and round spermatids) we have demonstrated the presence of a functional aromatase (transcript, protein and biological activity) and the estrogen output is equivalent to that of Leydig cells. In addition in the adult rat, transcripts of aromatase vary according to the germ cell type and to the stages of seminiferous epithelium. By contrast with the androgen receptors mainly localized in somatic cells, estrogen receptors (ERs) are described in most of the testicular cells including germ cells. Moreover, besides the presence of high affinity ERα and/or ERβ, a rapid membrane effect has been recently reported and we demonstrated that GPR30 (a transmembrane intracellular estrogen receptor) is expressed in adult rat pachytene spermatocytes. Therefore estrogens through both GPR30 and ERα are able to activate the rapid EGFR/ERK/c-jun signaling cascade, which in turn triggers an apoptotic mitochondrial pathway involving an increase in Bax expression and a concomitant reduction of cyclin A1 and B1 gene levels. In another study in round spermatids of adult rat we have shown that the rapid membrane effect of estradiol is also efficient in controlling apoptosis and maturation / differentiation of these haploid germ cells. In man the presence of a biologically active aromatase and of estrogen receptors has been reported in Leydig cells, but also in immature germ cells and ejaculated spermatozoa. Thus the role of estrogen (intracrine, autocrine and / or paracrine) in spermatogenesis (proliferation, apoptosis, survival and maturation) and more generally, in male reproduction is now evidenced taking into account the simultaneous presence of a biologically active aromatase and the widespread distribution of estrogen receptors especially in haploid germ cells.

Lotus, does that say what I think it says??...

(29-12-2014, 07:59 PM)elainecd Wrote: [ -> ]Lotus, does that say what I think it says??...

Lol yes, although it's a bit more involved then what it implies.

Quote:This review article discusses a novel nontraditional site of estrogen synthesis and the potential targets of estrogen action within the male reproductive system. Our laboratories have recently demonstrated that developing spermatids in several species contain aromatase, the cytochrome P450 enzyme responsible for converting androgens into estrogens.