Breast Growth For Genetic Males

(15-11-2014, 05:18 AM)Odile Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Lotus,

I have a doubt that probably you can clarify me

Estrogen and prolactin oppose each other, when one is high it suppresses the other. So, prolactin reduces estrogen, but there are herbs that stimulate the production of both hormones, such as FG? Fennel works in the same way? Is that counterproductive?

And goats rue just targets prolactin?


Thanks in advance

Hey there O,

I'm guessing the reason you want (or it least in part) is to tip the scale towards prolactin, if so nipple stimulation can help. You've got to read this great article to understand what I mean,

The Relationship Between Estrogen and Prolactin
by DrJim

When beginning to induce lactation most women find that even though they stimulate the nipples a lot there is no milk, even if the breasts have the alveoli and are ready to produce it. This is because of their high Estrogen state. Their hormonal condition has to be tipped toward Prolactin through nipple stimulation for a while before any actual milk will be produced. Again, it is important to remember that the breasts in their size, shape, development and readiness simply reflect the underlying hormonal balance or state of the woman.

http://www.landmilkhoney.com/djestrogen.htm

On herbs, yeah FG and fennel is ok, people tend to forget that GR is slightly estrogenic, fennel helps with tissue growth, and of course GR induces lactation, Vitex can add prolactin too, a few others possibly. I don't believe they counter each other, in fact, some breast formulas have them combined, along with several other herbs, just to cover the bases, which then I think it becomes a problem.

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No problem W.B.P.S, and good luck.

I know it will seem complicated, however, we talk a lot about estrogen receptors, there are 4 estrogen and estrogen receptor signaling pathways. The red dots are E1-estrone, ER is estrogen receptors. When E1 binds to ER estrogen receptors it still has to make it to the nucleus of the cell and synthesize, that's where the cell divides (multiplies) and growth (breast growth) occurs. It's much more complicated than what I described, but hopefully you get the basic idea.




[attachment=8381]

Estrogen synthesis and signaling pathways during ageing: from periphery to brain.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...po=28.4091

(12-11-2014, 06:04 AM)ELLACRAIG Wrote: [ -> ]Did you know that some Xenoestrogenes have a half-life of 25-100 years in the environment.

NO did not know that. And that's ****d up. This means there's residues potentially everywhere right... No wonder we are all getting breast cancer.. I just recently found out the dangers of simple "till receipts" - I wont touch them know. Hate to think of how many years I spent rubbing all that shit on my fingers and hands..

Do some reading on Monsanto's baby, Roundup. I was reading today, the "normal" (factory) farmers spray the crops with enough roundup to kill them, just before harvest. The plan is dying, it pushes more energy into seeding. IE, higher yield.
Roundup's glyphosphates also increase breast cancer risk.

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/maybe-you...ant_112014

It's getting to the point where Feine (spelling intentional, google with PA state trooper) was correct. Drop the final "e" in the name, I don't want to derail things TOO much - but look at the BS we need to jump through - including being declared mentally deficient before the law - to be "accepted" by the medical establishment as a T*.
Used to be, in the USSR, f you didn't LVOE the Party - you were mentally ill...
Here, already, if you want large sugary drinks... A gun.... religion.... breasts.... or just the freedom to walk around without the police possibly stopping you without cause, demanding to search your bags without a warrant, demanding a blood draw to make sure you're not drunk (and you can't refuse, either)... You know, the rights GUARANTEED IN THE CONSTITUTION.... Let alone, being secure in the knowledge the cop won't arrest / rape / tazer / pepper spray / kill you just for existing....

Methinks we have a problem, and TPTB like our problems - they profit from the problems.

But as this is neither time nor place, I'll shut up and go back to lurking.
Just - everyone watch your six, and learn useful (non-tech) skills. We're all deviants from the get-go. :-(

[attachment=8386]

(17-11-2014, 11:52 PM)steyraug96 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2014, 06:04 AM)ELLACRAIG Wrote: [ -> ]Did you know that some Xenoestrogenes have a half-life of 25-100 years in the environment.

NO did not know that. And that's ****d up. This means there's residues potentially everywhere right... No wonder we are all getting breast cancer.. I just recently found out the dangers of simple "till receipts" - I wont touch them know. Hate to think of how many years I spent rubbing all that shit on my fingers and hands..

Do some reading on Monsanto's baby, Roundup. I was reading today, the "normal" (factory) farmers spray the crops with enough roundup to kill them, just before harvest. The plan is dying, it pushes more energy into seeding. IE, higher yield.
Roundup's glyphosphates also increase breast cancer risk.

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/maybe-you...ant_112014

It's getting to the point where Feine (spelling intentional, google with PA state trooper) was correct. Drop the final "e" in the name, I don't want to derail things TOO much - but look at the BS we need to jump through - including being declared mentally deficient before the law - to be "accepted" by the medical establishment as a T*.
Used to be, in the USSR, f you didn't LVOE the Party - you were mentally ill...
Here, already, if you want large sugary drinks... A gun.... religion.... breasts.... or just the freedom to walk around without the police possibly stopping you without cause, demanding to search your bags without a warrant, demanding a blood draw to make sure you're not drunk (and you can't refuse, either)... You know, the rights GUARANTEED IN THE CONSTITUTION.... Let alone, being secure in the knowledge the cop won't arrest / rape / tazer / pepper spray / kill you just for existing....

Methinks we have a problem, and TPTB like our problems - they profit from the problems.

But as this is neither time nor place, I'll shut up and go back to lurking.
Just - everyone watch your six, and learn useful (non-tech) skills. We're all deviants from the get-go. :-(

This really sums it up now doesn't it..

If you have to go to these lengths to protect yourself from the chemicals then why is it ok for them to be absorbed into the plant and sucked up through the soil into the plants themselves. This is why I go organic where possible.

There's a film about GMO, its GMO OMG

I'm more worried if they take genes from something unrelated like from insects, I hope they don't.

(18-11-2014, 05:43 AM)lovely11 Wrote: [ -> ]There's a film about GMO, its GMO OMG

I'm more worried if they take genes from something unrelated like from insects, I hope they don't.

I'm confident theres no limit to what will be tried and done and for the most part unbeknownst to us. I recently found out that even though our country prides itself on being GMO free for the most part, recently our local farmers have started feeding the stock GMO feed which in turn filters through to the meat we eat. It made a small peice on the news at a time nobody watches (funny that).. Not safe anywhere.

(18-11-2014, 05:43 AM)lovely11 Wrote: [ -> ]There's a film about GMO, its GMO OMG

I'm more worried if they take genes from something unrelated like from insects, I hope they don't.

You mean like jellyfish genes being injected into plants we eat?
Already been done.

I think most of us align with Libertarian/Anarchist/ "Leave me the F alone" type politics, generally. No interest in allowing Gov't into our lives more than we have to. We want to be in control (for obvious reasons), and since there's a lot of rumbling about GMOs (allowing them to cross-pollinate, for example; injecting genes of animals into plants, and vice-versa; gene therapies for humans, which involve viral delivery methods)...
And we have history to look at for other examples - Rome fell from within, the barbarians sacked it while the people cheered in the Colloseum. No need to disturb the Romans...
Russia (Czarist), then the USSR.... Pretty soon the USSA, but I'm certain there will be a push to get us all chipped and controlled first - and disarmed. We're over halfway there already; how many of us (like me) have a smart phone attached at the ear most of the day? Or are busy looking at it, rather than learning to talk to others? No religion is acceptable, except Statism and Islam (Funny how those two fit together....)

All I want is an honest day's pay for an honest day's work, so I can then enjoy the time I'm NOT working however I want. But the groundwork is being laid to ensure that we're reduced to "human resources," virtually interchangeable cogs in the cartel (corporatist) social order. And I'm high enough in the organizations - a few steps down from CEO, usually no more than 4 - that I KNOW this stuff isn't accidental. Lunatics are running the asylum, and most people are too unaware, and uncaring, to even WAKE UP and smell the BS.
Smart, intelligent, capable, professional people refuse to see the forest for the trees. think they can vote the bums out - as we've done so many times before. (Congress, with an 11% approval rating, was re-elected about 94% of the time.)

The POTUS (I have other terms for it) is busy destroying our country as fast as he can. Where are all the anti-war protestors? Oh, it's a DEMOCRAT in the White House, they're on sabbatical until the Republicans are back in - when we'll get to see the caskets returning our troops home, day in and day out again.

Seems (I'm going to butcher this) if you want to use force on those OUTSIDE the country - to, you know, "spread American Values" like voting for which master runs the plantation* - then you're a Rupblican. If you want to turn that same security apparattus inwards, and use force at home to keep the proles in line (Defend the "right" to "gay Marriage," say - by censoring everyone who disagrees, and using the police to enforce "tolerance" - through brutality), then you're a Democrat. And if you don't want to sue force on anyone, and jsut want to be left alone to tend to your own life as you see fit - everyone thinks you're mentally ill.
*(Hence the black flag as my avatar. I was once a Republican... Black Flag is anarchist. :-P )

Corporations are people before the law. While we pay income taxes up the wazoo, corporations like GE get NEGATIVE TAXATION. They receive more than they pay.

How does ANYONE survive, even at the household Median income levels? Let alone at levels we call poverty?
And why do we allow these (unelected) individuals to run roughshod over all of us? Head of Monsanto? Replaceable. Which version is better, live psychopath or fertilizer? And it's across the boards - hospitals run as "for profit" organizations (My mother's working out the details of dad's medical billings - he died just over a year ago - she's still getting NEW BILLS!!!! They didn't charge enough for X, Y, Z, procedures.)
One of the reasons I've been keeping my head down all over. Now I'm so ornery and "old" I'm not willing to let these young "useful idiots" keep screwing things up - What can you take from me, my life? PLEASE! I'll give it away with BOTH HANDS! I go from a noisy chihuahua-type boss at work, to another at home, and I get NO peace of mind. So I'll give up that life, as long as I can give you a piece of your own mind... Maybe I can make the world a little better in passing.

Now, I don't begrudge companies making profits, not at all. I despise the distortion of the market, through creating barriers to entry - effectively, ensuring the free market CANNOT exist. E.G., EPA regulations, which shut down the last US lead smelting plant. That raises prices on all lead products. Ammunition, obviously, but also weights for your car. Mold elements (Meaning, molds for making things.) Fishing weights. Solder. Metal alloys, some will increase in price. All your electronics will have a price increase. That's the direct stuff. Indirectly? Delivery prices go up. Shipping prices. Banking costs. Fuel prices. WTF is going on? This isn't complex, it's BASIC economics.
But when the CEO earns 100X or more what the average worker in the same company earns? something's WRONG. That's a modern development. Gordon Gecko's speech is even more appropriate today than the 80s. "Greed is GOOD..."

But I don't want to be classified, ordered, told what I can and cannot buy, forced (at gunpoint, really) to pay for "MY" land, told what can and cannot do on "MY" land, etc. We're being ordered to buy insurance here. Cars were the test run; auto insurance MUST be purchased - yet we STILL have a line item for "uninsired/underinsured drivers." And what happened to the costs since it was mandated? Skyrocketed.
Guess what's happening with HEALTH insurance, now that it's "FREE"? Premiums are doubling and tripling - and those who cannot afford insurance before - will now be arrested and charged with crimes for being unable to afford it NOW.
Debtor's prisons are illegal here... but then, so are DUI checkpoints, UN treaties that override US law, pleading the fifth as a sign of guilt (it CAN be used against you now, did you know...?), in fact - the entire "DRIVING" system is illegal, because it hinges on the legal term "DRIVER" - which is a PERSON FOR HIRE, such as a limo or taxi driver. Not the average person traversing the land in their personal conveyance.

Ever read 1984? Brave New World? Seen Equilibrium? Clockwork Orange?
We're headed in the wrong direction on EVERYTHING. No matter who wins the election, WE LOSE. The only options are to start resisting, legally when possible, and moving the the gray areas as the noose tightens...

Anyway, I think everyone liked me better when I was lurking - I'll try to STFU. ;-)

Ok wow, I thought we we're talking about nbe?, not that I don't mind hearing what you have to say, and it seems you have plenty to talk about. (No more lurking for you).

Shifting gears:

E1-Estrone (10-20% of circulating estrogens)
Implicated in hormone-medicated cancers.

E2-Estradiol (10-20% of circulating estrogens)

E3-Estriol (60-80% of circulating estrogens)
Thought to be anti-carcinogenic; most protective
estrogen ever tested against breast cancer.

So..... Estriol is the best one to use then? Other than PM, is there any herbal way to get it?

(18-11-2014, 08:38 PM)iaboy Wrote: [ -> ]So..... Estriol is the best one to use then? Other than PM, is there any herbal way to get it?

well, some food sources are broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage,

ia, ok if I take the long way around this?,

It is now known that estrogens exert their end-organ effect by activating a complex intracellular mechanism. Tissues which respond to estrogen possess intracytoplasmic proteins (receptors) that preferentially bind specific steroids.

For instance, a cell from the uterus will possess 5000–15,000 estrogen receptors whereas a cell from the spleen will have none. These receptors recognize estrogens by their three dimensional and chemical characteristics and bind it with high affinity (KD =10-10), specificity, and saturability.

The estrogen molecules present in the circulation are relatively loosely bound to intravascular carrier proteins (sex-steroid-binding globulin [SBG]) (KD = 10-8) or to albumin. In excess of 95% of the estrogen in the circulation is found in the bound form. The estrogen readily diffuses across the cell membrane in its active free form due to a concentration and a binding gradient. The estrogen molecule is relatively small (molecular weight is 300) and lipophilic and probably passes through the cell membrane by simple diffusion.

Once in the cell, the estrogen is promptly bound to the intracellular (intracytoplasmic) receptor protein, which then undergoes a series of complex spatial changes prior to intranuclear transport. This nuclear transport occurs within 30–45 minutes after the target tissue is exposed to estrogen. The following system of nuclear interactions between receptor and DNA is a model that has been proposed by McCarty.3 The activated receptor–estrogen complex then nonspecifically binds to the DNA and protein of dispersed chromosomes (euchromatin) and stimulates acetylation of the histone protein.

This acetylation of the histones in nucleosomes causes the nucleosome to “open up” and expose specific DNA segments for transcription. The “estrogen message” is transcribed into new messenger RNA which then migrates back into the cytoplasm and activates various cellular processes including new protein synthesis. The now “freed” receptor protein is probably recycled back into the cytoplasm for further use.

The estrogen receptor recognizes a molecule as being “estrogen” if its size, three-dimensional configuration, and charge are similar to the parent molecule. Therefore, the nonsteroidal synthetic estrogens may not resemble the “prototype” estrogen (estradiol-17β) on paper diagrams but are very similar in shape and other properties as seen by the cellular receptor. Estrogen receptors are perhaps the determinants of potency for estrogenic substances.

The estrogen receptors preferentially bind estradiol over estriol (2x) and estrone (3x).5 This receptor also discriminates among the estrogens by binding estradiol within the cellular nucleus longer than the weaker estrogens estriol and estrone.

Therefore, estradiol is the most potent of the natural estrogens probably because of the greater affinity and duration of its receptor-binding compared with the other available estrogens. Receptors for estrogen and other steroid hormones can now be accurately quantified and studied. Estrogen in physiologic concentrations stimulates the synthesis of estrogen receptors and of progesterone and testosterone receptors.

Progesterone and testosterone, however, inhibit estrogen receptors. Progesterone inhibits its own receptor population in the secretory phase of human endometrium. Thus, it is apparent that for estrogen to bind and influence a tissue, the specific estrogen receptors must be present. The potency of a particular estrogen in a tissue roughly parallels and is probably dependent on the quantity of the estrogen receptor in the cells of that tissue. Studies with estrogen receptors in breast cancers are being successfully utilized to predict the responsiveness of these tumors to hormonal manipulation.

http://www.glowm.com/section_view/item/2.../value/237

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The adrenal gland is the primary source of estrogen in postmenopausal women, and estrone is the dominant estrogen, the E2:E1 ratio being reversed after menopause. In comparison to those of cycling women, estrone levels are reduced to low follicular phase levels. There is an insignificant contribution to the estrone pool from estradiol conversion, ovarian estrone secretion, and conversion of ovarian androstenedione

However, virtually all the total estrone production can be accounted for by peripheral conversion of androstenedione in adipose tissue and liver. There is a strong correlation with age and obesity in the conversion efficiency of androstenedione to El. The nonobese postmenopausal woman has an average androstenedione to E1 conversion rate of 2.7%, compared with 5.1% for the obese postmenopausal patient with uterine bleeding secondary to increased endogenous estrogen.