Breast Growth For Genetic Males

(02-03-2014, 11:32 AM)Misty lynn Wrote: [ -> ]I feel for you sammie that would be a hard find in heels in that size i got me a pair today my first pair at a thrift shop and as i was walking to the door i heard the one lady say to the other he just got some womens dress shoes lol i just laughed to myself and kept walking to the door lol now learning to walk in them wow that going to take some work

Your first pair of heels,Misty? Oh how wonderful! A nice pair of heels will put a big smile on my face anytime.
Tell me you love them honey!

Alright, I suppose I need an update here.
I visited the endo again yesterday. We went over the results of my bloodwork, nearly four years after starting on PM.
All the other tests were super, indicating my general health is great and in fact above average for my age.
Mt T was exceptionally low at 2.5, which is way low for a bio male and well within the female range.
However, my E was at 5.0
In subsequent refection with a couple of other forum members, we have concluded that the E in PM does not show up on tests because the test is specific to estradiol, and completely misses the miroestrol from PM.
So it appears that between PM and my other AAs, I have successfully knocked my T way down. So far down in fact that there is little T for aromatase to take place.
I spoke with the doctor for awhile. He was prepared to boost my T or go the other way depending on what I wanted.
We agreed to begin me on a course of estradiol at a rate of 4mg daily, and after a month check the blood again. I began taking estradiol in a generic form of Estrofem last night. In the meantime, I will discontinue all aspects of my program except PM and PC. Thus, if my T remains low at the end of a month we may safely conclude, I think, that PM does in fact reduce T. Should the results be different, and T goes up, then a different conclusion will present itself.
For admitting to the estradiol course, I suppose I will be burned at the stake here on BN, lol...but my belief, as I have stated before, is that herbs are indeed, when properly administered, a very definite form of transitioning, regardless of what people may tell themselves. Sue me...lol

I still have no current desire to progress to full transition, but I have learned to never say never.
My goal is still to find peace with my GID and move forward.
To that end... and this part is fun... I am going to a TG/CD event tomorrow night. I will be meeting many new TG/CD friends in a safe environment, en femme (a first for me), and maybe... just maybe... going out dancing at a TG/CD friendly club afterward. Big steps for old Sammie. I am so excited I may pee in my panties.
Wish Grandma luck, girls!

Based on your test results, Sammie, you must be doing all the right things with your NBE program. Your free T is very low -- right in the middle of the range for a normal bio-female. Your total T, however, as we discussed privately, is at the lower end of normal for bio-male. That's probably due to your taking Spearmint which, correct me if I'm wrong, binds free T with SHBG but still counts it in the total T measurement.

Stopping all your AAs should increase your free T and total T, but who can say for sure. It'll be very interesting to see the results next month.

I didn't think to ask why you elected to go on a low dose of estradiol. Do you expect it to trigger more breast growth? If you add more estrogen to your body, won't your endocrine feedback systems push down your T even further?

You said you are continuing with progesterone cream (PC). Is that to deal with the possibility of experiencing estrogen dominance with the addition of estradiol on top of the miroestol from PM?

I'm sorry. Too many questions. This is so interesting, though.

Clara

(06-03-2014, 04:06 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]Based on your test results, Sammie, you must be doing all the right things with your NBE program. Your free T is very low -- right in the middle of the range for a normal bio-female. Your total T, however, as we discussed privately, is at the lower end of normal for bio-male. That's probably due to your taking Spearmint which, correct me if I'm wrong, binds free T with SHBG but still counts it in the total T measurement.

Stopping all your AAs should increase your free T and total T, but who can say for sure. It'll be very interesting to see the results next month.

I didn't think to ask why you elected to go on a low dose of estradiol. Do you expect it to trigger more breast growth? If you add more estrogen to your body, won't your endocrine feedback systems push down your T even further?

You said you are continuing with progesterone cream (PC). Is that to deal with the possibility of experiencing estrogen dominance with the addition of estradiol on top of the miroestol from PM?

I'm sorry. Too many questions. This is so interesting, though.

Clara

Clara, the syn E was at his suggestion, and I view this as a one month trial or experiment. Granted, he saw no E in my results so naturally wants to boost that. He did not see the PM induced E because the test only looks for estradiol and misses the kind from PM. What I want to see is if T does go up or if the AA affect from PM alone maintains my already low amount. I expect to make changes again after a month. And quite right about the PC. But I also just like the fullness I seem to get from it.
Consider me a guinea pig. LOL

DHT blockers will also artificially inflate your total T, since it prevents T from binding at DHT receptors and is still free in the bloodstream and measured as total T.

About whether your T will rise from taking PM/Estradiol/PC...I highly doubt it. Not so much because of the very mild AA effect of PM, but because T is already on the low end, so once you boost the E up your body will make even less T in response. So it has more to do with the endocrine system's natural feedback loop to keep hormones in balance than it does the mild AA effect.

Although, the lack of a DHT blocker could possibly result in enough of that being made to bother you, even if the total T is lower. You'll know if that's the case soon enough. If you start getting horny/irritable, add one.

(06-03-2014, 06:51 PM)SarahSchilling Wrote: [ -> ]DHT blockers will also artificially inflate your total T, since it prevents T from binding at DHT receptors and is still free in the bloodstream and measured as total T.

About whether your T will rise from taking PM/Estradiol/PC...I highly doubt it. Not so much because of the very mild AA effect of PM, but because T is already on the low end, so once you boost the E up your body will make even less T in response. So it has more to do with the endocrine system's natural feedback loop to keep hormones in balance than it does the mild AA effect.

Although, the lack of a DHT blocker could possibly result in enough of that being made to bother you, even if the total T is lower. You'll know if that's the case soon enough. If you start getting horny/irritable, add one.

I think I understand what you've said, Sarah. It's true that PM is not a T-blocker, but it still lowers one's T levels indirectly and, in my case, drastically. My Total T was recently measured at a very low 109 ng/dl from essentially PM alone. Sorry, I don't have a number for my free T.

I'm pretty sure that most endocrinologists know little about herbal estrogenics and T-blockers, so a patient like any one of us is going to throw them off. The only reason I can think of to switch to synthetic estrogen is that it will react with more kinds of estrogen receptors than miroestrol, and it's more potent. As for breast growth, miroestrol interferes with estradiol, thus blunting its effect. That's good for lowering the risk of getting breast cancer.

I think that if I ever got to the point that I wanted to go the pharma route, I would drop the herbals altogether and take spiro/estrogen/progesterone like most transsexuals do. At least then the endos know what they're dealing with.

Hey, I'm not an herbal purist, just trying to be practical.

Clara

Just an update from my outing the other night. I was running so late when I arrived I had to throw the makeup on... I hate that so much. I far prefer to have enough time to be careful and precise. But still, the joy of a first time around other people canceled out all the other worries. Everyone was so nice. I don't expect to come down from that high for awhile... at least I hope not. And now I am dying to do it again. Tee hee

Hugs

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(09-03-2014, 03:08 PM)Samantha Rogers Wrote: [ -> ]Just an update from my outing the other night. I was running so late when I arrived I had to throw the makeup on... I hate that so much. I far prefer to have enough time to be careful and precise. But still, the joy of a first time around other people canceled out all the other worries. Everyone was so nice. I don't expect to come down from that high for awhile... at least I hope not. And now I am dying to do it again. Tee hee

Hugs

You look great! How is it that when one of us here shows her female face, it is so much more attractive than most of the genetic women one encounters. Now if I was quite a bit younger and unattached...

Why, Annie, you little devil... tee hee. Thanks, sweetheart!

Here is an update, since it has now been a week and a half since I introduced estradiol and stopped all my AA's (no SP, no Spearmint).
During that time my program has been consistently as follows:
4mg Estradiol daily
3500-4000 mg PM daily
plus one cap apiece of Licorice and White Peony.

I think I can almost feel the T beginning to rise again. Subjective, of course, but I feel an assertiveness returning that I have not felt for awhile. Concentration levels are starting to stabilize. My stuff is starting, in small ways, to return to life a little. And some anger is manifesting itself here and there again... mostly in one particular area... but that is a story for another time.
I will be very curious to see results of the next round of blood tests, which I will have taken later next week.
More anon...
Hugs