[sfem]

The only reason I can provide this kind of detail is that I've been keeping a log of what's happening on my NBE journey. It's just the way I am. I used to keep a diary in high school, too; a rather feminine thing to do wouldn't you say?

This forum contains a wealth of information. Here's what I've learned on the question of dosage from the postings of the more experienced members of the forum (correct me if I'm wrong, sfem):

As a general guideline, a good approach to get to the right dosage of PM is to ramp up slowly until you feel growth begin (assuming that no adverse reactions occur before that), but taking no more than 3000 mg/day. Then, back off to a dosage that continues the growth while maintaining any mental benefits (brain re-wiring) you are looking for. There's no point in wasting money by taking more than what's needed for growth, and taking too much can cause problems like estrogen dominance.

It's working for me so far.

It sounds to me like you have a good handle on things. Interestingly enough, my diary was the first and only place I ever confessed my feelings before I discussed the topic with my wife.

[GoneGirl]

My wife told me that if I had a medical condition that made me grow breasts, she'd be fine with it. But if I took something to grow them, she wouldn't be happy. I think the possible benefits far outweigh that. They could potentially bring some excitement to our personal life. And, I pray with time she will agree.

Katrina, I can sure relate to what you are experiencing, and I think you are on the right track.

My initial justification for taking PM was to find relief from my gender dissonance and compulsive behavior. Both my wife and I agreed that it was worth giving PM a try to find relief, but the prospect of significant breast growth from taking PM long term was a concern. I explained to her that I'd know long before there were any irreversible changes to my body if it was going to help or not. She agreed to go ahead on that basis.

I was on PM less than 2 weeks when the mental calmness kicked in. My wife could tell the difference herself and welcomed it. The question then became: Do I continue on with the treatment or not? We agreed it was best to continue, proceeding one step at a time. I figured I could go as long as six months on PM without irreversible breast growth or permanent loss of male function. I told my wife there was also a chance, albeit small, that I might be able to reduce my PM dosage enough to stop growth but still keep the mental benefits.

As the program progressed, my wife became more at ease about my breast growth. The mental calmness and heightened emotional sensitivity that I was experiencing had the effect of strengthening our relationship. That convinced her that continuing to take PM was a good thing despite the prospect of breast development. I, of course, was delighted about that possibility, and so here we are at week 10 with no regrets to speak of at this point.

It's still a step-by-step process for us. I say 'us' because I feel it has to be something we both are comfortable with for it to work out well. I'd be happy with small breasts that are ease to hide. I expect to continue to present publicly as a male. I'm not TS.

I'm supposed to reduce my PM dosage as much as I can while preserving my improved mental state. I have to admit, though, I want to see more development before I do that, and I've told my wife that. So far she's okay with it, and is showing a lot of interest in the fun possibilities that my growing breasts have to offer.

Keep in mind, Katrina, that I don't have the complications of young children in the house or a job where transgenders might be unwelcome. I think such considerations are what scare some spouses more than anything else.

In my opinion, breast growth taking PM *is* a medical condition, and justifies my going ahead. I expect to use that explanation myself when the time comes to handle those inevitable inquiring minds.

CK

[JennaSkye]

(I'm OP, had to change username..)

So, I told you I believed I would be able to answer my own question. I am now a week into this as of today. I started @ 2,000mg on Day 1. Two days ago, I bumped myself up to 3,000mg. 1,000 in the morning, and 2,000 at night to see if I could notice a difference in these placebo pills. Well, I now know I passed my limit.

Yesterday morning, I woke up and everything was fine. It takes me about 20 minutes from getting out of bed to be at work. I take my PM and vitamins as soon as I wake up. By the time I pulled into the parking lot at work, I felt like I was going to throw up. I ended up being fine after about 10 minutes, but it was weird. I couldn't tell if it was caused by the increase of PM, but I needed to find out. So last night, again I took 2,000mg @ around 7:30pm. I woke up this morning and instantly started thinking if I felt fine.. I felt great. 20 minutes later, I walked into work and it hit me again. I got very nauseous and came closer to vomiting

I haven't decided yet if I am going to cut back on the amount, or if I'm going to space it out a bit better. I'm open to suggestions.

I showed my wife this thread and we have so far had two more pretty lengthy conversations regarding what's going on.

Psychological changes we've both noticed:
My mood has become pretty level. We are both noticing that I have been able to sit and have conversations with her and focus on her. We talked for a good hour last night, and I expressed to her how I felt "content with life" and "finally free". That was the only way to describe it. I do not know if this is due to PM, or if it's a placebo effect, so I'm not saying I'm experiencing hormone-induced brain rewiring. I think it's too early to even begin making assumptions.

Physical changes she noticed:
She has insisted that if there are physical changes, I'd stop taking PM. So, while we were talking last night about my mental state, I made the joke, "I can't believe all of the physical changes as well, huh?" - It was complete sarcasm. But her response was, "I noticed.." She said that while we were sitting in the living room, she saw my nipples were pointy. I haven't been paying attention, and am curious as to what she saw.

Along with the PM, I have been taking vitamins. I am going to post the link to the ones I'm taking, but I cannot say I recommend it or that I am promoting it, as I'm not. I got a ton of these free.

http://www.metagenics.com/mp/products/we...essentials

I started chewing two chewable tums (or whatever brand we have at home) per night, as each tablet was 500mg of calcium. I really don't want to be eating tums, or taking more pills, so I'm looking for alternate recommendations.

My wife and I are so happy so far with the progress (mental) and are hoping this is real. In a few months, we are planning on going to talk to a Dr/therapist to see what we can do about getting on some sort of plan where I could be monitored. I am very nervous about hurting kidneys or liver or blood clotting. I just have to get over the embarrassment of telling a professional that I need my testosterone levels lowered.

Again, sorry for random thoughts, but any input, opinions or guidance would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you!

[chrissymarch]

Could I suggest dropping the Vitamins and see how you react to just the PM
also I think it is recommended you even out your dosages try 1000mg morning and 1000mg evening well before you go to bed, give your body time to adjust to PM.

[GoneGirl]

My wife and I are so happy so far with the progress (mental) and are hoping this is real. In a few months, we are planning on going to talk to a Dr/therapist to see what we can do about getting on some sort of plan where I could be monitored. I am very nervous about hurting kidneys or liver or blood clotting. I just have to get over the embarrassment of telling a professional that I need my testosterone levels lowered.

I think you are on the right track, Hurricane. I'm betting it's real. Too bad you had to experience the unpleasant GI reaction to the high dose of PM.

It's good that you and your wife are communicating. It's essential, in my opinion. Complete honesty is necessary to build trust, and trust is needed to find a mutually satisfactory solution to your distress.

Seeing a doc is good, too. I'm at the age where I need to schedule regular doctor visits to monitor my general health including kidney and liver functions. Doing so yourself will afford you some peace of mind. I'm not aware of any serious health risks from taking PM, but it's good to get confirmation.

High T can be a problem for transgenders. It can aggravate gender dysphoria in males as described in this paper by Dr. Anne Vitale:

http://www.avitale.com/TNote15Testosterone.htm

If you do have a relatively high T level, you can drive it down using herbal supplements like Saw Palmetto (SP) or Spearment. That alone will reduce your libido and possibly quiet your mental anxiety. Some have complained that it left them feeling tired and empty. Everyone is different, though.

My testosterone (DHT) level has been on the high side all my life. Taking PM has lowered my T with predictable results, while at the same time feeding estrogen receptors in my brain and elsewhere. My energy level stays up and I keep a fairly positive mental attitude. PM is causing breast tissue growth, slowly but surely. I think I can deal with that in the trade-off.

My wife and I are more concerned about my ability to achieve and hold an erection on PM, so one week each month, I stop taking PM to restore my T levels temporarily. This seems to work with no lapse in mental well being. I'm also experimenting with Butea Superba, another herb from Thailand, that enhances male sexual function. It also seems to work for me, but I notice some degradation in my mental state while under its effect.

I have no plans to see a therapist. I have no plans to transition and live as a woman. I crossdress in the privacy of my home whenever the mood strikes me, and with my wife's approval. She's cool about it. We try to make it a fun thing we can share together. In many ways I have the best of two worlds. I live as a man with all privileges that it gives me while also being able to experience certain aspects of being a woman (including domestic duties unfortunately).

There's no way either of us want to go back to the way things were.

I commend you for taking steps to resolve your gender identity issues. I wish I had acted sooner myself. Too stupid and cowardly, I guess. I believe it's possible to find peace within yourself while bettering the lives of the people around you. Good luck.

CK

[JennaSkye]

I have no plans to see a therapist. I have no plans to transition and live as a woman. I crossdress in the privacy of my home whenever the mood strikes me, and with my wife's approval.

I'm actually right there with you. I don't want to transition, I'm happy being a guy. There's just too many benefits from this to not pursue it. If I went to see a doc or therapist, would they throw my ideas out the window? I don't go to doctors because they always tell me I'm fine, even when I came crawling in because my appendix was bursting and was told it was probably indigestion. I had to demand an xray for them to realize it was worse. And I've been to 4 doctors in the last 15 years and all seem to have the same mentality. If I can discover that I am happier on HRT but want to stay a guy, what would they say? From what I'm saying, do I seem like I have GD?

As for the comment about stopping the vitamins, were you meaning to see if that's making me sick?

Sorry, I'm on my phone typing and cannot reread the replies. Thank you!

[chrissymarch]

yes give your body time to adjust to PM only and take it slowly ,if you are still being sick stop the PM for a week and see if that is the problem it not unknown for some people to react badly to PM. Just eliminate every thing else first.

[GoneGirl]

From what I'm saying, do I seem like I have GD?

My understanding is that GD (Gender Dysphoria) is not a simple "you have it or you don't" condition. I like Anne Vitale's preferred acronym: GEDAD (Gender Expression Deprivation Anxiety Disorder). It emphasizes the true source of the mental and/or behavioral problems stemming from having a subconscious female gender identity. That is, it isn't having the exceptional gender identity that is causing problems, but rather, the inability, for whatever reason, to express that side of one's gender identity sufficiently. The severity of the resulting anguish depends on the proportion of subconscious gender identity, male vs. female, that exists along with the degree to which one side or the other is denied expression. I refer to my own gender identity issues as "gender dissonance" rather than "gender dysphoria" because it is not as serious a condition as the word "dysphoria" implies. For example, I don't suffer from depression.

As I've come to understand transgender theory better, I can see why gender dysphoria is more of a problem for bio-males with a strong subconscious female identity as compared to bio-females with a strong subconscious male identity. Our culture and society are more tolerant of girls expressing masculine traits than boys expressing feminine ones. Two of my sisters were quite 'tomboy' by nature. They were remarkably free to dress and act the way they felt, even to this day. Much of their masculine behavior was even celebrated. I, on the other hand, was compelled to suppress my girlish nature all through childhood and adulthood because of both subtle and unmistakable messages: that any expression of feminine inclinations was unacceptable. Period.

When intrinsic gender inclinations are denied normal means of expression, stresses built up and find release in ways that are damaging to a person's ability to achieve his full potential.

A gender therapist can help a person determine the degree to which one's cross gender identity is a problem. Some transgender persons require full transition to the opposite sex. Others, like me for example, have a split subconscious sex, roughly 50/50 male to female. If I transitioned to live full time as a woman, with HRT and SRS, there's a good chance I would end up regretful and unhappy, especially at this late stage in life. I can cope with a much more modest transition (I hope).

Only you, with the possible aid of a therapist, can determine the degree to which gender identity is the cause of certain psychological problems that you may be experiencing. I took a DIY approach, but I'm not recommending that others should as well. Finding a good therapist can be a problem though. The most recent insights in gender identity theory and practice (SOC - WPATH) are not universally understood by psychologists across the board. You may have to live in, or travel to, a large city to find qualified professional help. I mention this only because I recall you writing that you plan to consult a doctor (therapist?) down the road.

Everything I write is just my personal opinion. It's good to get other points of view, as well.

Good luck on your journey of self-discovery, Hurricane!

BTW, is that Hurricane as in "Hurricane Katrina"?

She was quite a woman, too; a force to be reckoned with.

CK

[JennaSkye]

Yeah, over everything I wrote, my wife had a problem with me using a females name as my username. So, I figured I'd have a little fun with it.

As for the sickness, I stopped the vitamins this morning and was fine all day. I also spaced out my intake from two in the morning and 4 at night to 2 x 3.. I had some interesting emotions last night. I was laying in bed talking to my wife and she was upset because she can't believe the mental changes, stating that multiple times in the last couple days she guaranteed I'd be upset and angry about something and raise my voice but she said I never did and it hit her how she's come to accept me being angry all of the time and couldn't believe the peaceful and understanding demeanor in me.. Anyway, I held her while she cried and I assured her how much I love her and it almost put me into tears.. I don't cry.. Yet.

I'm thinking about picking up some SP to compliment the mood changes.. Yay/nay?

[GoneGirl]

Yeah, over everything I wrote, my wife had a problem with me using a females name as my username. So, I figured I'd have a little fun with it.

As for the sickness, I stopped the vitamins this morning and was fine all day. I also spaced out my intake from two in the morning and 4 at night to 2 x 3.. I had some interesting emotions last night. I was laying in bed talking to my wife and she was upset because she can't believe the mental changes, stating that multiple times in the last couple days she guaranteed I'd be upset and angry about something and raise my voice but she said I never did and it hit her how she's come to accept me being angry all of the time and couldn't believe the peaceful and understanding demeanor in me.. Anyway, I held her while she cried and I assured her how much I love her and it almost put me into tears.. I don't cry.. Yet.

I'm thinking about picking up some SP to compliment the mood changes.. Yay/nay?

Yeah, it's real. I mean the mental changes are kind of freaky, aren't they? My wife has made mention of the changes in me, too. She likes them. It's a big factor in her acceptance. She still says she's confused about this bi-gender identity thing. I told her it's not something that can be explained, it just is. I said that I'll stop taking PM if she wants me to, but so far, at least, she's okay going forward.

I'm taking 500 mg capsules of PM spaced out 4 times a day. Next week I'm going to try to reduce that to 1500 mg/day. I want to slow down the breast development if I can without losing the mental benefits. I have to admit that being in the middle of the gender spectrum, my feelings about growing noticeable breasts go back and forth. I can always speed things up later if I become more confident about integrating my female gender expression into my daily life.

With respect to SP, I don't know what you mean by "complement the mood changes". I don't take Saw Palmetto. As I understand it, SP inhibits the conversion of free testosterone, produced by the testes, to dihydro-testosterone (DHT) which is what maintains your secondary male characteristics and sexual function. PM has the same effect on its own, but maybe not as powerfully. If I become unhappy with the rate my breasts are growing after giving PM a chance to work, I'll consider adding SP or Spearmint to my plan. As is, I don't think it will be necessary.

Hurricane, I know just what you and your wife are going through at the moment. This can be a very emotionally charged stage in your NBE journey from my experience. The relief I felt after years of constant subconscious stress was like blue sky opening up after a nasty storm. The aftermath presents its own challenges, though. My wife and I are still trying to understand what it all means. Take it slow and steady. You'll both need some sense of stability in your life for awhile. Mending your relationship and building trust is important.

BTW, you will cry eventually. I did, and it helps.

CK