[Lotus]

So if I read between the lines, pharma HRT effects ER-a, but PM effects ER-b. So, if I add some PM back into the mix it should assist growth rather than hinder it.

Yes E2 binds with ER-a, however!........bioidentical progesterone is still needed to complete ductal side branching (rounding). Too much prolactin produces tubular growth, while E2 produces elongation. Add in growth hormone and essential fatty acids and hopefully things start happening lol, (albeit a slow process).


I still wouldn't use PM with HrT:

miroestrol competes with estrogen and blocks the excessive stimulation of estrogen receptors often seen with breast or endometrial cancer.

[Lotus]

Well, how do you like this, green tea raises growth hormone (theanine in tea raises GABA), even at resting.

Determination and comparison of γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) content in pu-erh and other types of Chinese tea.
Zhao M, et al. J Agric Food Chem. 2011.
Show full citation
Abstract
Two previous studies have reported that pu-erh tea contains a high level of γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA), which is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system and has several physiological functions. However, two other researchers have demonstrated that the GABA content of several pu-erh teas was low. Due to the high value and health benefits of GABA, analysis of mass-produced pu-erh tea is necessary to determine whether it is actually enriched with GABA. A high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) method was developed for the determination of GABA in tea, the results of which were verified by amino acid analysis using an Amino Acid Analyzer (AAA). A total of 114 samples of various types of Chinese tea, including 62 pu-erh teas, 13 green teas, 8 oolong teas, 8 black teas, 3 white teas, 4 GABA teas, and 16 process samples from two industrial fermentations of pu-erh tea (including the raw material and the first to seventh turnings), were analyzed using HPLC. Statistical analysis demonstrated that the GABA content in pu-erh tea was significantly lower than that in other types of tea (p < 0.05) and that the GABA content decreased during industrial fermentation of pu-erh tea (p < 0.05). This mass analysis and comparison suggested GABA was not a major bioactive constituent and resolved the disagreement GABA content in pu-erh tea. In addition, the GABA content in white tea was found to be significantly higher than that in the other types of tea (p < 0.05), leading to the possibility of producing GABA-enriched white tea.
PMID 21395338 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Determination of theanine, GABA, and other amino acids in green, oolong, black, and Pu-erh teas with dabsylation and high-performance liquid chromatography.
Syu KY, et al. J Agric Food Chem. 2008.
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Abstract
Dabsyl chloride (dimethylaminoazobenzene sulfonyl chloride), a useful chromophoric labeling reagent for amino acids and amines, was developed in this laboratory in 1975. Although several methods have been developed to determine various types of amino acids, a quick and easy method of determining theanine, GABA, and other amino acids has not been developed in one HPLC system. In this paper are analyzed the free amino acid contents of theanine and GABA in different teas (green tea, black tea, oolong tea, Pu-erh tea, and GABA tea) with a dabsylation and reverse phase high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) system coupled with a detector at 425 nm absorbance. Two reverse phase columns, Hypersil GOLD and Zorbax ODS, were used and gave different resolutions of dabsyl amino acids in the gradient elution program. The data suggest that the tea source or the steps of tea-making may contribute to the theanine contents variations. High theanine contents of high-mountain tea were observed in both green tea and oolong tea. Furthermore, the raw (natural fermented) Pu-erh tea contained more theanine than ripe (wet fermented) Pu-erh tea, and the GABA contents in normal teas were generally lower than that in GABA tea.
PMID 18652476 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




Growth hormone isoform responses to GABA ingestion at rest and after exercise.
Randomized controlled trial
Powers ME, et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008.
Show full citation
Abstract
Oral administration of the amino acid/inhibitory neurotransmitter gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) reportedly elevates resting serum growth hormone (GH) concentrations.
PURPOSE: To test the hypothesis that GABA ingestion stimulates immunoreactive GH (irGH) and immunofunctional GH (ifGH) release at rest and that GABA augments the resistance exercise-induced irGH/ifGH responses.
METHODS: Eleven resistance-trained men (18-30 yr) participated in this randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study. During each experimental bout, participants ingested either 3 g of GABA or sucrose placebo (P), followed either by resting or resistance exercise sessions. Fasting venous blood samples were acquired immediately before and at 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, and 90 min after GABA or P ingestion and were assayed for irGH and ifGH.
RESULTS: At rest, GABA ingestion elevated both irGH and ifGH compared with placebo. Specifically, peak concentrations of both hormones were elevated by about 400%, and the area under the curve (AUC) was elevated by about 375% (P < 0.05). Resistance exercise (EX-P) elevated time-point (15-60 min) irGH and ifGH concentrations compared with rest (P < 0.05). The combination of GABA and resistance exercise (EX-GABA) also elevated the peak, AUC, and the 15- to 60-min time-point irGH and ifGH responses compared with resting conditions (P < 0.05). Additionally, 200% greater irGH (P < 0.01) and 175% greater ifGH (P < 0.05) concentrations were observed in the EX-GABA than in the EX-P condition, 30 min after ingestion. GABA ingestion did not alter the irGH to ifGH ratio, and, under all conditions, ifGH represented approximately 50% of irGH.
CONCLUSIONS: Our data indicate that ingested GABA elevates resting and postexercise irGH and ifGH concentrations. The extent to which irGH/ifGH secretion contributes to skeletal muscle hypertrophy is unknown, although augmenting the postexercise irGH/ifGH response may improve resistance training-induced muscular adaptations.
PMID 18091016 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[hannah]

Hey beauty may i ask you re the program you posted, about how much mg astaxanthin and white peony root females would need? thanks!!

I'm blushing too, (re: missB and Hannah) 4-8mg of astaxanthin for GG's (genetic girls).

WP extract needs to me at least 3grams per day. I'll post a study that I posted before about what WP does in the ovaries (meaning inhibiting 5 alpha reductase and promotes aromatase). But, finding a WP extract close to 6% paeoniflorin and other glycosides can be difficult. As with most NBE products, sourcing verified supplements takes work.

Really 3 grams?! Thats more than I expected...it will be really hard to source down a supplement like that indeed...I'll probably have to order it overseas since I only found herbal blends just containing some WP. Do you have a suggestion of a brand for WP?
And thanks a lot for the info about puarerin.. I'm now wondering if I should swop the PM out for red Clover...that wil require some digging again..

[missboobshirt]

hey lotus, may I ask what PC brand you use? I am looking to buy a new one

[Lotus]

hey lotus, may I ask what PC brand you use? I am looking to buy a new one

Hi missB,

I use this brand, it has very light scent (a faint rose maybe?), it's a nice silky feel to it and drys quick:
http://www.smokymountainnaturals.com/par...ife-cream/

[Lotus]

Do you have a suggestion of a brand for WP?

And thanks a lot for the info about puarerin.. I'm now wondering if I should swop the PM out for red Clover...that wil require some digging again..

I'll look for a WP that I would use, (I'll get back to ya). Red clover could work in the first half, what brand PM is it?.

[Lotus]

Lavender & tea tree oil products display weak estrogenic & antiandrogenic activities: the first study is more detail (imo).


Prepubertal Gynecomastia Linked to Lavender and Tea Tree Oils http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nej...discussion


Our in vitro studies confirm that lavender oil and tea tree oil possess weak estrogenic and antiandrogenic activities that may contribute to an imbalance in estrogen and androgen pathway signaling. Estrogenic or antiandrogenic activities have been reported for other essential oils and some of their monoterpene constituents.13-18 On the basis of the three case reports and the in vitro studies, we suspect that repeated topical application of over-the-counter products containing lavender oil or tea tree oil was the cause of gynecomastia in the three patients.



Lavender and Tea Tree Oils May Cause Breast Growth in Boys https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-rel...rowth-boys

The three otherwise healthy Caucasian boys, ages four, seven and 10 years, had normal hormonal levels when they were diagnosed with gynecomastia by Clifford Bloch, M.D., in Colorado. All had either used lavender-scented soap and skin lotions, or shampoos or styling products that contained tea tree oil and lavender oil as ingredients. In each case, several months after the suspected products were discontinued, the gynecomastia had subsided or resolved.

After Bloch discussed the cases with Korach, the NIEHS researchers conducted experiments using human cells to determine if the oils mimic the effects of estrogen, the female hormone that stimulates breast tissue growth, or inhibited the effects of androgen, the hormone known to control masculine characteristics and inhibit the growth of breast tissue. The researchers tested the ability of the oils to modulate or inhibit gene expression.

“The results of our laboratory studies confirm that pure lavender and tea tree oils can mimic the actions of estrogens and inhibit the effects of androgens,” said Korach. “This combinatorial activity makes them somewhat unique as endocrine disruptors.”

[tanysquirrel]

“The results of our laboratory studies confirm that pure lavender and tea tree oils can mimic the actions of estrogens and inhibit the effects of androgens,” said Korach. “This combinatorial activity makes them somewhat unique as endocrine disruptors.”

and here I thought all that was debunked

[missboobshirt]

hey lotus, may I ask what PC brand you use? I am looking to buy a new one

Hi missB,

I use this brand, it has very light scent (a faint rose maybe?), it's a nice silky feel to it and drys quick:
http://www.smokymountainnaturals.com/par...ife-cream/

thank you so much!!! paraben free, yaaas! it's not even that expensive! yay!

[Pinnochia]

They are a one of the cornerstone in my program,, I know (weak estrogenic effects) are a common phrase even for many supplimental herbs as well,,  but I figure if im hammering my hormones with soy,,, pounding them with the anti androgenic effects of Saw palmetto,,, and taking fenugreek, 6-610 mg capsules a day,, lots of Flax , the addition of the oils,( used regularly) massaged in twice a day in a oil carrier,,  well it all has to amount to cumulative damage does it Lotus?

Id even thought about the possibility of (carefully) trimming back testicles,,with the tea tree oil.  Mine are huge, in fact they've always been a hinderance,, they get twisted up unless your wearing a cup all the time, and that didnt save them during my football years in school.

I read somewhere that their anti androgen effect was strong enough to shrink balls. dont anybody run with that idea,, cause im not certain, just wondered what you thougt about the safe application there . I mean ive been using a fairly strong mixture of tea tree oil and lavender in either oil or lotion for almost a year ,, and have never had any adverse effects in my breast area,
The only sensation is a mild menthal like feeling,, though ive read straight- undeluted
application to the lower area is quite painful.