[hannah]

Hey beauty may i ask you re the program you posted, about how much mg astaxanthin and white peony root females would need? thanks!!

[Pinnochia]

I think for most of us "older" folks, with may be 50, 60, 70 year old males, but we are just teenage girls. The only thing we are short is the menstrual cycle..... Thank goodness.
Bobbi

I heard that Bobbi,,, lol,, yea we are teeny boppers in our own wonderful way.

[Lotus]

I see a problem with Puerarin, which is in Pueraria Mirifica (PM). In other words, aromatase is cut 50% by puerarin.

Regulation of aromatase P450 expression by puerarin in endometrial cell line RL95-2

It was demonstrated that in untreated RL95-2 cells, when c-jun was knocked down, the expression of P450arom exhibited >50% decrease at both mRNA and protein levels, which meant c-jun was essential for P450arom overexpression. Therefore, when puerarin was used, c-jun was down-regulated and so was P450arom.
http://www.jcimjournal.com/en/fulltext2....2008101017


Results
3.1   Effects of puerarin on P450arom expression and activity   To find out whether puerarin (Figure 1A) inhibited aromatase and led to its function of endometriosis treatment, P450arom expression in RL95-2 cells treated with puerarin (10－7 mol/L) or dimethyl sulphoxide (DMSO) was estimated by quantitative RT-PCR and Western blot method. A significant decrease of P450arom expression at mRNA level by 10－7 mol/L puerarin treatment in RL95-2 compared with DMSO treatment was demonstrated by our group (Figure 1B). Furthermore, there was a time-course effect on P450arom mRNA expression at 10－7 mol/L puerarin, which was significantly reduced at 6 h, reached the bottom (>70%) at 12 h and returned to normal at 24 h (Figure 1C).

[tanysquirrel]

so that leads me to ask, if you have something that reduces the aromatization, can you override it with something than enhances it?

[Lotus]

Hey beauty may i ask you re the program you posted, about how much mg astaxanthin and white peony root females would need? thanks!!

I'm blushing too, (re: missB and Hannah) 4-8mg of astaxanthin for GG's (genetic girls).

WP extract needs to me at least 3grams per day. I'll post a study that I posted before about what WP does in the ovaries (meaning inhibiting 5 alpha reductase and promotes aromatase). But, finding a WP extract close to 6% paeoniflorin and other glycosides can be difficult. As with most NBE products, sourcing verified supplements takes work.

[Lotus]

so that leads me to ask, if you have something that reduces the aromatization, can you override it with something than enhances it?

That's hard say for sure because of metabolisms. I will say you shouldn't leave breast growth up to one herb. It's a combination of (2-3) estrogenic and (2-3) 5 ar inhibitors combined with (2) growth hormones, and (1-2) pro-aromatase.

Granted, some herbs have mutlifunctional roles, like FG, Reshi, WP, PC, and so on, (a few other things are needed too). Using combination herbs got me to a D-cup, so......I know it works. But, given this news about puerarin, it does seem to limit PM's effectiveness, thus the need for strong pro-aromatase herbs.

[tanysquirrel]

so that leads me to ask, if you have something that reduces the aromatization, can you override it with something than enhances it?

That's hard say for sure because of metabolisms. I will say you shouldn't leave breast growth up to one herb. It's a combination of (2-3) estrogenic and (2-3) 5 ar inhibitors combined with (2) growth hormones, and (1-2) pro-aromatase.

Granted, some herbs have mutlifunctional roles, like FG, Reshi, WP, PC, and so on, (a few other things are needed too). Using combination herbs got me to a D-cup, so......I know it works. But, given this news about puerarin, it does seem to limit PM's effectiveness, thus the need for strong pro-aromatase herbs.

gotcha

but I thought that combo-pro-estrogenic herbs flys in the face of logic as they compete for E-sites and the weaker one wins? or am I getting mixed up again?

[Lotus]

If there was an " all in one pill " we'd certainly know about it by now. Combinations of pharma HrT are needed to achieve desired feminization too, (some exceptions are noted though). I should've attached fitness, massage, and other NBE techniques.

Some NBE herb target ER-a (estrogen receptor alpha, the growth receptor), e.g. red clover, FG, vitex, while others target ER-b (estrogen receptor beta, anti-proliferation to ER-a) e.g. PM, soy isoflavones.

Knowing what herbs target certain endocrine or P450 enzyme functions would have better results (used singularly) to draw from as opposed to larges amounts of one herb. If one NBE/HrT items are successful we'd have better analysis (lab tests included) to draw conclusions from no?.


Pueraria Mirifica for Menopausal Symptom Relief and Tissue Support

Puerarin, the major isoflavone in Pueraria mirifica, puerarin has been shown to decrease estrogen receptor over-expression.

http://restorativemedicine.org/wp-conten...ymptom.pdf

[Lotus]

So let's suppose PM has initiated a growth phase during a 24hr supplementation, puerarin is inhibting growth during half that time, (my observation only). However, adding PC achieves some density (adding roundness).

Agree or disagree, ER-a still needs some stimulation to activate ER-a, if PM doesn't have miroestrol, it's unlikely major synthesis will happen. PC and E2 act synergistically, without which breast tissue will not grow towards nice boobies.

[jannet.duff]

So if I read between the lines, pharma HRT effects ER-a, but PM effects ER-b. So, if I add some PM back into the mix it should assist growth rather than hinder it.