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Suppository Dosage as Opposed to Consumed Dosage
#41
(27-01-2021, 04:50 AM)HelloDiDi Wrote:
(27-01-2021, 02:46 AM)Lotus Wrote:
(26-01-2021, 10:41 PM)Nipply Russel Wrote:
(26-01-2021, 05:47 PM)Sylvia Coco Wrote: Very interesting topics have been raised about it, it is a pleasure to read it.
I have a question about people with blood clotting problems. Is this method of using PM safer for the circulatory system?



That's what we're hoping. Suppository and transdermal dosing of pharmaceutical hormones is claimed to produce a significantly lower likelihood of clots, although suppository dosing isn't as well-researched, simply because it's considered to be less favorable than the popular patch method. It would stand to reason that PM could be "more safely" taken using the suppository.

As I understand it (and I'm pretty dense), Lotus is saying that liver activation is required when taking PM, but suppositories ARE liver-activated. But she is stating that a slow-release fatty acid-based suppository is best. That's a bit of a drag, but it is what it is.

Stating the above for (hopeful) clarification.

For me, I either need to pursue the suppository route or take Rutin for blood thinning and take my chances...or discontinue use altogether.




Hi Nipply & Sylvia, (Nipply my friend, you're far from dense). 

Over the years I've seen about a dozen cases of DVT being reported from PM use (at BN), even 1 case is way too many. So why is this happening?, here's my take:

Systemic inflammation (stemming from oxidative stress) can lead to thrombosis. Some years ago we had a thread helping people make sense of their hormone test results. What I found was users of PM had higher white blood cell count, indicating inflammation. Too much estrogen stimuli can lead to DVT. I still see people talking about taking 3,000mg of PM. This is an unnecessary risk to one's health, no matter how healthy the individual is. In cis-women only 250mg (or even 100mg) is recommended because of how it extends their menstrual cycle...plus a few other things. 1,000 to 1,500 is all I'd personally take if I was still on PM. Obesity and lack of exercise can be another risk factor. 

From the study below progesterone was found to inhibit the action of thrombin by 10-15%. Personally speaking progesterone cream should be included on day one if you're taking PM...or BO. We need that extra protection from progesterone when starting NBE. I would suggest vitamin D3 as it helps to reduce inflammation lowering the risk of thrombosis...go with vitamin D3 w/organic olive oil. I take 10,000 iu. 

Nipply (or anyone else) chose the route that's best for you. This information is to provide you with some options to consider. I will be introducing a new Breast Growing plan soon that will be a lower risk option. Feel free to ask questions. 

Listed Science:

Chronic Stress Facilitates the Development of Deep Venous Thrombosis
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2015/384535/


Progesterone metabolites rapidly stimulate calcium influx in human platelets by a src-dependent pathway
Peter F Blackmore. Steroids. 2008 Aug.

Abstract
The effects of several steroids and their metabolites were examined for their ability to rapidly alter intracellular free calcium ([Ca(2+)](i)) in the anucleate human platelet. Earlier studies suggested that steroids had direct and rapid non-genomic effects to alter platelet physiology. The rationale for performing this study was to investigate the signal transduction events being activated by steroids. Super-physiologic concentrations (1.0-10.0microM) of beta-estradiol and several estradiol metabolites and analogs potentiated (approximately twofold) the action of thrombin to elevate [Ca(2+)](i) in platelets, whereas 10.0microM progesterone inhibited the action of thrombin by 10-15%. Progesterone and beta-estradiol by themselves did not affect [Ca(2+)](i). Progesterone metabolites can achieve high blood concentrations. Some progesterone metabolites, particularly those in the beta-conformation, were potent stimulators of Ca(2+) influx and intracellular Ca(2+) mobilization in platelets. They activated phospholipase C because their ability to increase [Ca(2+)](i) was inhibited by the phospholipase C inhibitor U-73122. The ability of pregnanediol and collagen to increase [Ca(2+)](i) was inhibited by the src tyrosine kinase inhibitor PP1, whereas the actions of thrombin and thapsigargin to increase [Ca(2+)](i) were not affected by PP1. The effects of progesterone metabolites to increase [Ca(2+)](i) were observed with concentrations as low as 0.1microM. Pregnanolone synergized with thrombin to increase [Ca(2+)](i). It is hypothesized that human platelets possess receptors for progesterone metabolites. These receptors when stimulated will activate platelets by causing a rapid increase in [Ca(2+)](i). Pregnanolone, isopregnanediol and pregnanediol were the most effective stimulators of this newly identified src-dependent signal transduction system in platelets. Progesterone metabolites may regulate platelet aggregation and hence thrombosis in vivo.


The role of oxidative stress and antioxidants in male fertility
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24578993/



Reading the stuff above makes me to rethink what I'm doing... Along with experience on how I feel after more than one cycle without taking breaks. I wish I understood all this better.

So trying to understand this and realise I am a bit dense and a hypocrite claiming I want feminisation no matter the risk but deeply interested in finding a way that won't possibly shorten my life. Looking forward to the new low risk breast growing plan very much, hoping I don't miss it by accident.
From my knowledge and understanding and  i'm a medically challenged person so all I got out of this is I need a progesterone cream (don't even know what that is or if it's legal to buy) and syringing a water Base pm mix up my bum isnt good I need to use oil or coconut to lower the release rate? Just more confused than ever as to what I'm doing to myself or if it's right or just harmful. Also the water pm mix seems sorta safe-ish right now, I can keep it in but after inserting anything in my bum....am not a flatulent person, is very rare for me to blow wind, colleage's are impressive, they can blow wind in earthshattering dimensions and quite often, know matter how watertight and airproff an orafice may be if you have the urge for a little of the littlest poop what you squirted in, it will come out. Just terrified a greasy or oily substance will come out unexpectedly causing extreme embarrasment.
Water with pm I can hold for a max of 2 or 3 hours, oil???
As said I very rarely fart but putting anything up my bum induces it and whatever I inserted will come out. Greasy or oily kinda frightens me.
 Reply
#42

Lotus, Nipply and thegirl1951,
thank you very much for your professional answers. They are very informative for me and show once again how complicated the matter we are talking about.

(27-01-2021, 12:48 AM)thegirl1951 Wrote:

CoCo, 

Warfarin is a complicated drug that has a complex chemistry according to my hematologist.  It interacts with many different foods and drugs.   If you are taking warfarin and don't have your own INR measuring machine I would be very careful about taking any herbs that may interact with warfarin without talking to your doctor.   I take two different kinds of anticoagulants (warfarin and  Plavix Wink.  Platvix is an antiplatelets drug that works differently than warfarin.   Your health is at stake.  Just my two cents.




I am aware of this - I also take Plavix and I do not want to mix these drugs with anything that could harm me even more.


(27-01-2021, 02:46 AM)Lotus Wrote:
(26-01-2021, 10:41 PM)Nipply Russel Wrote:
(26-01-2021, 05:47 PM)Sylvia Coco Wrote: Very interesting topics have been raised about it, it is a pleasure to read it. I have a question about people with blood clotting problems. Is this method of using PM safer for the circulatory system?

That's what we're hoping. Suppository and transdermal dosing of pharmaceutical hormones is claimed to produce a significantly lower likelihood of clots, although suppository dosing isn't as well-researched, simply because it's considered to be less favorable than the popular patch method. It would stand to reason that PM could be "more safely" taken using the suppository. As I understand it (and I'm pretty dense), Lotus is saying that liver activation is required when taking PM, but suppositories ARE liver-activated. But she is stating that a slow-release fatty acid-based suppository is best. That's a bit of a drag, but it is what it is. Stating the above for (hopeful) clarification. For me, I either need to pursue the suppository route or take Rutin for blood thinning and take my chances...or discontinue use altogether.

Hi Nipply & Sylvia, (Nipply my friend, you're far from dense).  Over the years I've seen about a dozen cases of DVT being reported from PM use (at BN), even 1 case is way too many. So why is this happening?, here's my take: Systemic inflammation (stemming from oxidative stress) can lead to thrombosis. Some years ago we had a thread helping people make sense of their hormone test results. What I found was users of PM had higher white blood cell count, indicating inflammation. Too much estrogen stimuli can lead to DVT. I still see people talking about taking 3,000mg of PM. This is an unnecessary risk to one's health, no matter how healthy the individual is. In cis-women only 250mg (or even 100mg) is recommended because of how it extends their menstrual cycle...plus a few other things. 1,000 to 1,500 is all I'd personally take if I was still on PM. Obesity and lack of exercise can be another risk factor.  From the study below progesterone was found to inhibit the action of thrombin by 10-15%. Personally speaking progesterone cream should be included on day one if you're taking PM...or BO. We need that extra protection from progesterone when starting NBE. I would suggest vitamin D3 as it helps to reduce inflammation lowering the risk of thrombosis...go with vitamin D3 w/organic olive oil. I take 10,000 iu.  Nipply (or anyone else) chose the route that's best for you. This information is to provide you with some options to consider. I will be introducing a new Breast Growing plan soon that will be a lower risk option. Feel free to ask questions.  Listed Science: Chronic Stress Facilitates the Development of Deep Venous Thrombosis https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2015/384535/ Progesterone metabolites rapidly stimulate calcium influx in human platelets by a src-dependent pathway Peter F Blackmore. Steroids. 2008 Aug. Abstract The effects of several steroids and their metabolites were examined for their ability to rapidly alter intracellular free calcium ([Ca(2+)](i)) in the anucleate human platelet. Earlier studies suggested that steroids had direct and rapid non-genomic effects to alter platelet physiology. The rationale for performing this study was to investigate the signal transduction events being activated by steroids. Super-physiologic concentrations (1.0-10.0microM) of beta-estradiol and several estradiol metabolites and analogs potentiated (approximately twofold) the action of thrombin to elevate [Ca(2+)](i) in platelets, whereas 10.0microM progesterone inhibited the action of thrombin by 10-15%. Progesterone and beta-estradiol by themselves did not affect [Ca(2+)](i). Progesterone metabolites can achieve high blood concentrations. Some progesterone metabolites, particularly those in the beta-conformation, were potent stimulators of Ca(2+) influx and intracellular Ca(2+) mobilization in platelets. They activated phospholipase C because their ability to increase [Ca(2+)](i) was inhibited by the phospholipase C inhibitor U-73122. The ability of pregnanediol and collagen to increase [Ca(2+)](i) was inhibited by the src tyrosine kinase inhibitor PP1, whereas the actions of thrombin and thapsigargin to increase [Ca(2+)](i) were not affected by PP1. The effects of progesterone metabolites to increase [Ca(2+)](i) were observed with concentrations as low as 0.1microM. Pregnanolone synergized with thrombin to increase [Ca(2+)](i). It is hypothesized that human platelets possess receptors for progesterone metabolites. These receptors when stimulated will activate platelets by causing a rapid increase in [Ca(2+)](i). Pregnanolone, isopregnanediol and pregnanediol were the most effective stimulators of this newly identified src-dependent signal transduction system in platelets. Progesterone metabolites may regulate platelet aggregation and hence thrombosis in vivo. The role of oxidative stress and antioxidants in male fertility https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24578993/





I don't know if I understood correctly - in the case of using PM, the natural "cover" is progestron cream? I understand that the point is what is applied to the breast?

I am also looking forward to the safe treatment you mentioned.

I would like to make sure once again from this point. Would it be safe for me at the moment to take a dose of 1200 mg of RR per day as a DHT blocker (the goal is to reduce libido and improve hair quality)?




 Reply
#43

(27-01-2021, 11:18 AM)Sylvia Coco Wrote:

Lotus, Nipply and thegirl1951,
thank you very much for your professional answers. They are very informative for me and show once again how complicated the matter we are talking about.

(27-01-2021, 12:48 AM)thegirl1951 Wrote:

CoCo, 

Warfarin is a complicated drug that has a complex chemistry according to my hematologist.  It interacts with many different foods and drugs.   If you are taking warfarin and don't have your own INR measuring machine I would be very careful about taking any herbs that may interact with warfarin without talking to your doctor.   I take two different kinds of anticoagulants (warfarin and  Plavix Wink.  Platvix is an antiplatelets drug that works differently than warfarin.   Your health is at stake.  Just my two cents.




I am aware of this - I also take Plavix and I do not want to mix these drugs with anything that could harm me even more.


(27-01-2021, 02:46 AM)Lotus Wrote:
(26-01-2021, 10:41 PM)Nipply Russel Wrote:
(26-01-2021, 05:47 PM)Sylvia Coco Wrote: Very interesting topics have been raised about it, it is a pleasure to read it. I have a question about people with blood clotting problems. Is this method of using PM safer for the circulatory system?

That's what we're hoping. Suppository and transdermal dosing of pharmaceutical hormones is claimed to produce a significantly lower likelihood of clots, although suppository dosing isn't as well-researched, simply because it's considered to be less favorable than the popular patch method. It would stand to reason that PM could be "more safely" taken using the suppository. As I understand it (and I'm pretty dense), Lotus is saying that liver activation is required when taking PM, but suppositories ARE liver-activated. But she is stating that a slow-release fatty acid-based suppository is best. That's a bit of a drag, but it is what it is. Stating the above for (hopeful) clarification. For me, I either need to pursue the suppository route or take Rutin for blood thinning and take my chances...or discontinue use altogether.

Hi Nipply & Sylvia, (Nipply my friend, you're far from dense).  Over the years I've seen about a dozen cases of DVT being reported from PM use (at BN), even 1 case is way too many. So why is this happening?, here's my take: Systemic inflammation (stemming from oxidative stress) can lead to thrombosis. Some years ago we had a thread helping people make sense of their hormone test results. What I found was users of PM had higher white blood cell count, indicating inflammation. Too much estrogen stimuli can lead to DVT. I still see people talking about taking 3,000mg of PM. This is an unnecessary risk to one's health, no matter how healthy the individual is. In cis-women only 250mg (or even 100mg) is recommended because of how it extends their menstrual cycle...plus a few other things. 1,000 to 1,500 is all I'd personally take if I was still on PM. Obesity and lack of exercise can be another risk factor.  From the study below progesterone was found to inhibit the action of thrombin by 10-15%. Personally speaking progesterone cream should be included on day one if you're taking PM...or BO. We need that extra protection from progesterone when starting NBE. I would suggest vitamin D3 as it helps to reduce inflammation lowering the risk of thrombosis...go with vitamin D3 w/organic olive oil. I take 10,000 iu.  Nipply (or anyone else) chose the route that's best for you. This information is to provide you with some options to consider. I will be introducing a new Breast Growing plan soon that will be a lower risk option. Feel free to ask questions.  Listed Science: Chronic Stress Facilitates the Development of Deep Venous Thrombosis https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2015/384535/ Progesterone metabolites rapidly stimulate calcium influx in human platelets by a src-dependent pathway Peter F Blackmore. Steroids. 2008 Aug. Abstract The effects of several steroids and their metabolites were examined for their ability to rapidly alter intracellular free calcium ([Ca(2+)](i)) in the anucleate human platelet. Earlier studies suggested that steroids had direct and rapid non-genomic effects to alter platelet physiology. The rationale for performing this study was to investigate the signal transduction events being activated by steroids. Super-physiologic concentrations (1.0-10.0microM) of beta-estradiol and several estradiol metabolites and analogs potentiated (approximately twofold) the action of thrombin to elevate [Ca(2+)](i) in platelets, whereas 10.0microM progesterone inhibited the action of thrombin by 10-15%. Progesterone and beta-estradiol by themselves did not affect [Ca(2+)](i). Progesterone metabolites can achieve high blood concentrations. Some progesterone metabolites, particularly those in the beta-conformation, were potent stimulators of Ca(2+) influx and intracellular Ca(2+) mobilization in platelets. They activated phospholipase C because their ability to increase [Ca(2+)](i) was inhibited by the phospholipase C inhibitor U-73122. The ability of pregnanediol and collagen to increase [Ca(2+)](i) was inhibited by the src tyrosine kinase inhibitor PP1, whereas the actions of thrombin and thapsigargin to increase [Ca(2+)](i) were not affected by PP1. The effects of progesterone metabolites to increase [Ca(2+)](i) were observed with concentrations as low as 0.1microM. Pregnanolone synergized with thrombin to increase [Ca(2+)](i). It is hypothesized that human platelets possess receptors for progesterone metabolites. These receptors when stimulated will activate platelets by causing a rapid increase in [Ca(2+)](i). Pregnanolone, isopregnanediol and pregnanediol were the most effective stimulators of this newly identified src-dependent signal transduction system in platelets. Progesterone metabolites may regulate platelet aggregation and hence thrombosis in vivo. The role of oxidative stress and antioxidants in male fertility https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24578993/





I don't know if I understood correctly - in the case of using PM, the natural "cover" is progestron cream? I understand that the point is what is applied to the breast?

I am also looking forward to the safe treatment you mentioned.

I would like to make sure once again from this point. Would it be safe for me at the moment to take a dose of 1200 mg of RR per day as a DHT blocker (the goal is to reduce libido and improve hair quality)?






I am a cautious person by nature.  If you are on warfarin and Plavix that indicates to me (I'm not a medical doctor, I just read a lot) that you may have heart issues and/or have genetic blood factors (factor 2 and/or factor 5) that predisposes you to DVT and PE.  I only speak from my own experience.  When I self diagnosed my DVT (via WebMD, which the doctor was amazed (this was about 9 years ago)) I drove myself to the ER.  The doctor was surprised that I was still alive after they found that I had 10 blood clots in my lungs (PE) in addition to my DVT (which had symptoms that could be felt before death!).  The PE did not show symptoms; my blood O2 levels were at the low end of OKish.  If in fact one of the 10 blood clots had been in a main blood vessel in my lungs I would have been dead before I got to the ER.

I have read that some of the herbs actually "thin" the blood and people on blood thinners need to be careful about taking some herbs (e.g., fenugreek https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-733/fenugreek). So, instead of clotting, you could be prone to bleeding.


Bottom-line, please be careful.


 Reply
#44

You

(03-01-2021, 05:29 PM)Nipply Russel Wrote:
(03-01-2021, 03:45 PM)Jessica7577 Wrote:

So you just put a capsule umm, up there? Or do u mix the pwoder with water? Sorry i just want to understand and am curious about trying



Easiest way is to open the capsule and empty the powder into a small container (like a bottle cap) and mix it with a few drops of water, then use a 1 ml plastic "dosing syringe" to inject it. Those syringes are used to give medicine to pets and babies and they're easily acquired.

I tried a 500 mg capsule of Ainterol last night and it definitely "took hold", as I had a fitful night's sleep, with lots of dreams, and hot flashes - I couldn't cool down, even on a cold winter's night. This is a reaction I've had before when taking it orally. I might use 250 mg, as the potency seems to be there.



Can you give any update as how this method works for you? Is it actually better than oral route, does it really work better?

 Reply
#45
(27-03-2021, 12:44 PM)Fangjoker Wrote: Can you give any update as how this method works for you? Is it actually better than oral route, does it really work better?


Not yet. I need more time. But so far, the boobs still seem to be growing. See my thread for updates.
 Reply
 

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