[Missed Miss]

I read something in the medical world at least 5 years ago that said the first uterine transplant has been a total success!! A woman donated her body (or just the uterus) when she died, so they implanted it into a T-girl and she can now produce eggs, have periods, get pregnant and even have the baby!! Cool, hun!! :-) I would guess that the eggs are those of the woman they came from rather than her own, but it's a HUGE step closer, isn't it?

Actually last I knew there were more than one, one was "successful" the others rejected fairly quickly. All were from genetic female to genetic female. The "successful" one was mother to daughter and STILL required a chock full of anti-rejection drugs to be taken the rest of the girls life. She did get pregnant and they are presently carefully tracking the pregnancy to make sure nothing goes wrong. They don't know if the anti-rejection drugs will or will not cause problems. Either with the pregnancy itself, delivery, or some sort of developmental difficulties for the child.

But it is a step. And an important one.

Meanwhile in another corner of the world of science they have successfully grown and implanted living tissue made from the recipients own DNA. Different organs. But also an important step.

And whilst these miraculous advances are being made openly, the government continues its clandestine research into nanobots and retroviruses.

Yet, unfortunately, stem cell research remains stalled due to the UN ban.

Seeing as how the one I heard about was at least 5 years ago, I'm sure the pregnancy is long since over. Also, it WAS a T-girl that got the implant and got pregnant. I clearly remember wondering the day I read it, if they'd have to do a C-section since the male skeletal pelvis was not made to pass a baby through it. Sorry I can't post the actual article. I seriously doubt I still have a copy.
If others have had this done, that's great, as long as it works.
Seeing as how they've been very successful in growing a human ear on the back of a mouse, I have to wonder if rejection is an issue anymore.

[AbiDrew85]

Seeing as how the one I heard about was at least 5 years ago, I'm sure the pregnancy is long since over. Also, it WAS a T-girl that got the implant and got pregnant. I clearly remember wondering the day I read it, if they'd have to do a C-section since the male skeletal pelvis was not made to pass a baby through it. Sorry I can't post the actual article. I seriously doubt I still have a copy.
If others have had this done, that's great, as long as it works.
Seeing as how they've been very successful in growing a human ear on the back of a mouse, I have to wonder if rejection is an issue anymore.

Yeah... The five years thing... AFAIK there was never ANY successful uterine transplant 5 years ago, let alone full reproductive organs.

The first SUCCESS was only a couple years ago:

http://rt.com/news/first-uterus-surgery-success-845/

I can't find a link about the pregnancy atm, that wasn't even half a year ago at most.

There was a big race around the time the Turks did it, and there were a few other attempts around the same time, but still, the Turkish one remains the only success.

[Missed Miss]

Seeing as how the one I heard about was at least 5 years ago, I'm sure the pregnancy is long since over. Also, it WAS a T-girl that got the implant and got pregnant. I clearly remember wondering the day I read it, if they'd have to do a C-section since the male skeletal pelvis was not made to pass a baby through it. Sorry I can't post the actual article. I seriously doubt I still have a copy.
If others have had this done, that's great, as long as it works.
Seeing as how they've been very successful in growing a human ear on the back of a mouse, I have to wonder if rejection is an issue anymore.

Yeah... The five years thing... AFAIK there was never ANY successful uterine transplant 5 years ago, let alone full reproductive organs.

The first SUCCESS was only a couple years ago:

http://rt.com/news/first-uterus-surgery-success-845/

I can't find a link about the pregnancy atm, that wasn't even half a year ago at most.

There was a big race around the time the Turks did it, and there were a few other attempts around the same time, but still, the Turkish one remains the only success.

I can suss it out this way: 8 years ago, the best friend I ever had was taken away from me by her new and abusive hubby and I got so sad and depressed I stopped reading pretty much everything, so, I had to have read this item about 8 years ago, or better. I only just started reading again last summer when she wrote and told me she left him for good and wanted to get back together with me. Since then, all I've read were my Chris Miller stories and about 4 or 5 books on entertainment in general and I know none of them said anything about this subject. Possibly you just never heard of it before a few years ago. It's like how everyone think Christine Jorgansen was the first TS, but that's not true. The earliest one I know of was from about 1942 (if not before that).
Anyway, I'm not trying to start any kind of an argy bargy, I'm just tellin' ya what I know. :-)

[AbiDrew85]

I can suss it out this way: 8 years ago, the best friend I ever had was taken away from me by her new and abusive hubby and I got so sad and depressed I stopped reading pretty much everything, so, I had to have read this item about 8 years ago, or better. I only just started reading again last summer when she wrote and told me she left him for good and wanted to get back together with me. Since then, all I've read were my Chris Miller stories and about 4 or 5 books on entertainment in general and I know none of them said anything about this subject. Possibly you just never heard of it before a few years ago. It's like how everyone think Christine Jorgansen was the first TS, but that's not true. The earliest one I know of was from about 1942 (if not before that).
Anyway, I'm not trying to start any kind of an argy bargy, I'm just tellin' ya what I know. :-)

Possible, I suppose. I'd love for you to try to dig it up to share.

And the latter part... there were ones even earlier than that. Though most of them until just a little before Jorgensen were all failures. Jorgensen was supposedly the first successful AMERICAN TS... But even that's not true. Not only isn't she a TOTAL success, read her own stuff about her life to see why I say that, but she wasn't the first American either. Again, she even admits as much herself in her own writings.

1942... Botched attempts only really. Before that, same. Even after for a while. It wasn't until I think the 50s that successes started showing up. Most of them just melted into the background. Jorgensen didn't and was the first one to end up in the public eye.

[Missed Miss]

I can suss it out this way: 8 years ago, the best friend I ever had was taken away from me by her new and abusive hubby and I got so sad and depressed I stopped reading pretty much everything, so, I had to have read this item about 8 years ago, or better. I only just started reading again last summer when she wrote and told me she left him for good and wanted to get back together with me. Since then, all I've read were my Chris Miller stories and about 4 or 5 books on entertainment in general and I know none of them said anything about this subject. Possibly you just never heard of it before a few years ago. It's like how everyone think Christine Jorgansen was the first TS, but that's not true. The earliest one I know of was from about 1942 (if not before that).
Anyway, I'm not trying to start any kind of an argy bargy, I'm just tellin' ya what I know. :-)

Possible, I suppose. I'd love for you to try to dig it up to share.

And the latter part... there were ones even earlier than that. Though most of them until just a little before Jorgensen were all failures. Jorgensen was supposedly the first successful AMERICAN TS... But even that's not true. Not only isn't she a TOTAL success, read her own stuff about her life to see why I say that, but she wasn't the first American either. Again, she even admits as much herself in her own writings.

1942... Botched attempts only really. Before that, same. Even after for a while. It wasn't until I think the 50s that successes started showing up. Most of them just melted into the background. Jorgensen didn't and was the first one to end up in the public eye.

If I could ever hope to find it, if I even kept a copy of it, I would post it here.
The one early TS I'm thinking of, and I even used to know his name (I don't think his fem name was ever mentioned where I read it), was very much successful, but she died about 5 years later (if I recall correctly) from an infection that had nothing to do with the operation.
I DO know that there's a TS on YouTube that has a shop somewhere where she sells TS gear and in the one video of hers I saw (demonstrating how to use glue for silicone breast enhancers, I believe) where she says flat out that as far as she's concerned, this guy from `42 that I'm talking about (and she mentions him by name) is HER real hero and NOT Christine, although everyone makes her out as the hero because she was supposedly the first.

[sfem]

I'm not sure I get where you're going with this?

Well, I didn't sleep much last night, so I wrote up a long reply to your post, and decided to sit back for a few minutes before hitting send. You'll be proud of me no doubt.

I'm not trying to change you or your mind Abi. I have deleted most of what I wrote as pointless. I did keep a couple of things I feel I do want to say though. I also have to say I am disappointed that there is getting to be so much personal bickering and name calling going on in this forum lately. It makes me sad and makes me feel like just withdrawing from the forum. Maybe it's just me, and I really should take a break from here for a while. A fair bit of what is in this thread (another completely hijacked one btw) seems to be aimed at individuals instead of their ideas and I think that is very destructive in a forum such as this. I would be very happy if that stopped. Anyway, for better or worse, here are the bits I decided to post.

I don't truly understand how the "in-betweenie" categories work. (Usually referred to as genderqueer, and I've been having a very rough time avoiding using the terminology since apparently you guys here don't like it.)

I personally find genderqueer to be an offensive label, but then I never did buy into the idea that choosing to label ourselves something offensive somehow reclaims the word(s). I think it is just another way to empower the haters, and maybe even continue subtly denigrating ourselves. "They" "took back" the word gay quite a few years ago and it remains a strong and common hate label when used by the haters.

When speaking with one of you I always try to respect who YOU are. Which is not like me. If I'm speaking to someone like me, then I'll respect them for who THEY are.

*sigh* Respect huh? Let me share with you what that word triggers for me in a context like this. I hear someone say they respect the right of someone else to be distinct. In this kind of context it means "I don't agree with or like what you are doing, but it's politically incorrect to say that. But if I vocalize respecting your rights, then I don't have to give up on my position and you can't tell me I did anything untoward." And in the meantime I have told you in code that you probably can't recognize, your position is wrong. You'll notice how this gets reinforced in subsequent communication when other clues to the underlying feelings slip out, such as using derogatory terms and saying they aren't derogatory because you didn't mean them that way. You know something? If you are into a discussion and at some point feel you need to tell the other party you respect their right to their opinion but you wish they would keep it to themselves, then you've already demonstrated you don't respect their opinion.

As for the original poster's question, I don't know much about transitioning, but I would be very surprised if you can transition without surgery unless I misunderstand what you mean by transition. Neither herbs nor drugs will make your dick fall off or grow a vagina.

[julieTG]

Sfem

Agreed with you there seems far far too much bickering of late even verging on hate

We're all supposed to be in a similar world here, different spectrums , but same world

We should all be pulling together too assist and support each other

Julie

[interbingung]

This thread has been way out of topic.

[AbiDrew85]

I personally find genderqueer to be an offensive label, but then I never did buy into the idea that choosing to label ourselves something offensive somehow reclaims the word(s). I think it is just another way to empower the haters, and maybe even continue subtly denigrating ourselves. "They" "took back" the word gay quite a few years ago and it remains a strong and common hate label when used by the haters.

OK. I can respect that and try not to use it. Honestly I've never liked most of the terms used either. Personally I'd much prefer it if I was simply just "a girl with a problem".

*sigh* Respect huh? Let me share with you what that word triggers for me in a context like this. I hear someone say they respect the right of someone else to be distinct. In this kind of context it means "I don't agree with or like what you are doing, but it's politically incorrect to say that. But if I vocalize respecting your rights, then I don't have to give up on my position and you can't tell me I did anything untoward." And in the meantime I have told you in code that you probably can't recognize, your position is wrong. You'll notice how this gets reinforced in subsequent communication when other clues to the underlying feelings slip out, such as using derogatory terms and saying they aren't derogatory because you didn't mean them that way. You know something? If you are into a discussion and at some point feel you need to tell the other party you respect their right to their opinion but you wish they would keep it to themselves, then you've already demonstrated you don't respect their opinion.

I didn't quite say this either. What I said is that I'd appreciate if he'd respect me enough not to keep trying to shove in-betweenie status down my throat. I KNOW I'm a girl. That's the end. Just like you KNOW you're somewhere between. That's the end. And that's fine. I do not and can not fully understand you, and you can not and do not fully understand me. And that's fine. What's NOT fine is for either one of us to go around telling others their gender experience is somehow WRONG just because WE don't understand it.

He wasn't just sharing his experiences and what made him a betweenie. He was telling me I was one too and just hadn't accepted it yet. And that's unacceptable.

As for the original poster's question, I don't know much about transitioning, but I would be very surprised if you can transition without surgery unless I misunderstand what you mean by transition. Neither herbs nor drugs will make your dick fall off or grow a vagina.

Actually not every transition involves EVER getting SRS. Some, maybe even most do. I will unless a better option is developed before I can.

But there are lots of girls who don't ever get SRS but still consider themselves fully transitioned. They generally seem to either have no sex lives, or are lesbians.

Many of them are VERY late-life transitions.

I still persist that spironolactone is not necessary and is just far too dangerous. And that's what they're gonna put you on if you go traditional.

[sfem]

I KNOW I'm a girl. That's the end. Just like you KNOW you're somewhere between. That's the end.

Since I find this to be a very interesting point, and one which is not likely ever to be resolved or decided, I would like to share my fairly fuzzy notion of the whole gender binary/transition concept.
I don't think of myself as inbetween. In any way. Perhaps at one time I did, perhaps I told myself it works that way.To me, inbetween say there are valid opposing genders. Physically that is true. But not mentally. Mentally there are simply variations. You might as well categorize people by colour preferences or favourite numbers or deities. All this shoehorning is useful for those seeking control of themselves or others, but not much otherwise.
My evolving view on this concept goes a bit like this. We are all conceived with both physical and mental characteristics which may well set limits or boundaries on how our minds and bodies can develop. As we develop in the womb, those characteristics gain some definition. I'm not sure whether I buy into the idea that anything can be learned while still in the womb, but I do believe that the development of the ability to grow, develop, and process input (both physical and mental) is affected by how we develop or do not develop in the womb. That process continues for pretty much the rest of our lives if we don't do something, or something is not done to us, to prevent or retard that process. We all begin with building blocks for what we call male and female physical attributes and mental processes. As for which become dominant in any person, that is probably set in a mostly biological framework. Of course our experiences in life can affect how we develop both mentally and physically, but I am not very convinced that the core "programming" can change very much. But I think the key thing here is not which end of the spectrum we gravitate towards, but the question of which behaviours and attributes become dominant. And perhaps more importantly, whether we take control of ourselves and try to enhance ourselves by developing the best of our total potential. For example, quite a few of us here have been down the path of developing our male physiques, and now are developing our female attributes instead. Likewise, some of us have intentionally tried to develop a stereotypical male mindset, and now are realizing that is a false goal. I don't believe that makes us girls or boys. I think that just means some of us are willing and able to explore ourselves in ways most people aren't and don't. As to behaviours being one gendered or the other, we have a lot more ability to change our boundaries and expand our limits with that aspect of ourselves. That alone says to me that those things are largely constructs we create, not predefined characteristics. How much anybody wants to pigeonhole themselves is up to them. I prefer not to have those limits. If you want to label me, I recommend the word male if you are talking physical, human if you want to talk brain. And if you read this far, you probably should try to find a hobby or something.
Don't forget to look for rainbows, and pet the unicorns.