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Project X (hrt)

Hiya Lotus

Fibromyalgia is one of the issues my sister has had to contend with for many years. We have actually looked into this to some depth and you are right, it's a beastie that needs to be contained before it gets too much of a grip. Unfortunately what is generally not so appreciated is that a diagnosis of Fibro is often just doctor speak for "We know you have ouch! but don't really know why". MS and Lupus are often miss diagnosed as Fibro, as are many other conditions than manifest themselves as pain.

The problem then is that what might help for one flavour of Fibro may actually aggravate another. Exercise being a good example. Keeping everything moving with moderate activity helps the muscles and lymphatic system clear out the toxins and cell debris that needs to be flushed out, which would otherwise cause inflammation (causing pain). But if the pain is caused by tissue/nerve damage which is manifesting itself as inflammation, working the muscles by exercise can actually aggravate the situation.

And to further cloud the waters, trying to exercise through the pain (my legs are going all goosey just thinking about that!) will release endorphins as part of the body's coping mechanism, so there may well be some short term pain relief. Unfortunately once the endorphins have left the system, greater pain levels may be payback because of the strain caused by the exercise.

But.... for some flavours of Fibro, the best thing you can do is nurture the underlying fitness levels. Which is where I guess these studies come in. The problem is, if you are the one feeling ouch but not sure which version of Fibro you have, do you really want to put yourself up to and through the pain barrier to find out?

However, there are a couple of things that really do help. Stress! Or rather, stress reduction. Too much to go into here, but stress and pain, and pain management are clearly linked. And we are not talking 'shouting-at-the-kids' stress. Emotional, physical, psychological, environmental, any form that hits your particular buttons can trigger a pain response. Real life means we cannot escape all the stress triggers in our lives, but to learn stress management skills WILL lower the pain levels. Even something like taking a regular hot bath with nice smellies and reeeellllaaaaaxxxx can be more effective than a fistful of pain killers (not that they work half the time anyway).

Inflammation control is another proven helper. So anti-inflammatories should be considered, and anti-histamines can make a big difference.

Also look at acid/alkali diets. If someone has Fibro they will almost always be sensitive to acid foods and even something as innocuous as an orange can cause a flare-up. Again, too much to go into here but from research and our own experience this does really help.

And most importantly..... HUG! You can't overdose on hugs :-)

Huggy
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Thanks Huggy, that's an excellent post, I can appreciate the goosy legs lol, I was diagnosed with fibro in 98'. More hugs back at you my friend. Big Grin.
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(28-05-2016, 07:47 AM)Lotus Wrote:  Thanks Huggy, that's an excellent post, I can appreciate the goosy legs lol, I was diagnosed with fibro in 98'. More hugs back at you my friend. Big Grin.

Hiya bud :-)

I forgot you mentioned that you had Fibro (sorry). My info is somewhat out of date now and I am sure more has been learned about alkali/acid levels and health by now, but what we learned and from our own experience there really does seem to be a connection between the body's PH and pain. Those with poor health will almost always have higher acidity levels. Oh, and stress can be a major contributor!

Happy to throw a few more thoughts your way, but knowing how good you are at digging up the good stuff, may I suggest this could be a subject worth looking into? If you do find anything of interest I would reeeely like to hear. As although my sisters Fibro is mostly under control now, it does flair up on occasion and she is incapacitated when it does. Guessing you know what that's like? :-(

Actually, I just had a thought. With all the information you have unearthed regarding inflammation and NBE, I wonder if this might have a bearing too? Lower PH (acid) causes inflammation.

Huggy.
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(28-05-2016, 11:10 AM)Huggy Wrote:  Hiya bud :-)

I forgot you mentioned that you had Fibro (sorry). My info is somewhat out of date now and I am sure more has been learned about alkali/acid levels and health by now, but what we learned and from our own experience there really does seem to be a connection between the body's PH and pain. Those with poor health will almost always have higher acidity levels. Oh, and stress can be a major contributor!

Good point (re: PH and pain), stress and fibro are synonymously linked.

(28-05-2016, 11:10 AM)Huggy Wrote:  Happy to throw a few more thoughts your way, but knowing how good you are at digging up the good stuff, may I suggest this could be a subject worth looking into? If you do find anything of interest I would reeeely like to hear. As although my sisters Fibro is mostly under control now, it does flair up on occasion and she is incapacitated when it does. Guessing you know what that's like? :-(

That's cool, thanks for the tip, unfortunately I know all to well how fibro works. Dodgy

(28-05-2016, 11:10 AM)Huggy Wrote:  Actually, I just had a thought. With all the information you have unearthed regarding inflammation and NBE, I wonder if this might have a bearing too? Lower PH (acid) causes inflammation.

It seems quite possible there is a cross connection. Lowering acidity or keeping it in balance has a wide range of health benefits. Lemons are acidic outside the body, but, alkalizing in our bodies and can help raise PH levels. I like lemon water for this application, additionally— Salmon, Sardines, CoQ10, (personal choice is astaxanthin) help ease fibro pain and raise PH. Short term use of licorice root helps relieve Fibromyalgia pain.
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My lastest test results showed I had a pregnant lady's estrogen level (1822 pg/mL). A week later another test revealed 703 pg/mL. E2 is still at 4 mg per day.

My free T is .97%...........spiro @ 100mg currently. Total T was 13 ng/dL


No big deal, RolleyesBlush I'm doing about 100 squats per day (although I missed 2 days in the last 12 days). It took about 2weeks of getting to 100-125 per day. I started at 20 per day then worked my way up. Now if I can do this with a handicap (surgery w/back implant, bad knees yada yada) I guess anybody can lol. Rolleyes I give credit to echapman for inspiration.
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(02-06-2016, 08:37 PM)Lotus Wrote:  My lastest test results showed I had a pregnant lady's estrogen level (1822 pg/mL). A week later another test revealed 703 pg/mL. E2 is still at 4 mg per day.

My free T is .97%...spiro @ 100mg currently. Total T was 13 ng/dL


No big deal, RolleyesBlush I'm doing about 100 squats per day (although I missed 2 days in the last 12 days). It took about 2weeks of getting to 100-125 per day. I started at 20 per day then worked my way up. Now if I can do this with a handicap (surgery w/back implant, bad knees yada yada) I guess anybody can lol. Rolleyes I give credit to echapman for inspiration.

Wow, putting me to shame, I barely roll out of bed and I call that my exercise!  Ha ha ha.

You had to go post your results.  You know I am anxiously waiting to do my tests again, that doesn't help!!! Ha ha ha.  Cool
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(02-06-2016, 09:29 PM)Sofia Lauren Bunny Wrote:  
(02-06-2016, 08:37 PM)Lotus Wrote:  My lastest test results showed I had a pregnant lady's estrogen level (1822 pg/mL). A week later another test revealed 703 pg/mL. E2 is still at 4 mg per day.

My free T is .97%...........spiro @ 100mg currently. Total T was 13 ng/dL


No big deal, RolleyesBlush I'm doing about 100 squats per day (although I missed 2 days in the last 12 days). It took about 2weeks of getting to 100-125 per day. I started at 20 per day then worked my way up. Now if I can do this with a handicap (surgery w/back implant, bad knees yada yada) I guess anybody can lol. Rolleyes I give credit to echapman for inspiration.

Wow, putting me to shame, I barely roll out of bed and I call that my exercise! Ha ha ha.

You had to go post your results. You know I am anxiously waiting to do my tests again, that doesn't help!!! Ha ha ha. Cool

Lol, trust me when I say it's not easy for me either. I figure I'm burning about 150 calories per 100 squats. Hopefully it's boosting HGH too. The E2 results came as a shock to me too, I haven't been doing things too differently. The only exception was some intermittent fasting and licorice root @ 450 mg 2x daily (3-4 days usage) to boost energy (cortisol). The next weeks test result was no LR and no fasting. I'm not to worried if T will be raised, I'm confident most will end up leaking pro-aromatase.

I think you'll be suprised (in a good way) when you get tested agian, meaning the lowering of T and raised E. Good luck Wink
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are you squatting for dat booty, lotus? :p make sure to use resistance! I wouldn't mind seeing a booty shot!! Big Grin lol show off dem curves
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(02-06-2016, 11:41 PM)missboobshirt Wrote:  are you squatting for dat booty, lotus? :p make sure to use resistance! I wouldn't mind seeing a booty shot!! Big Grin lol show off dem curves

You so funny missb Tongue.........yes yes, I'm booty hunting by squatting. Blush I did 150 the other day. Breaking them up helps (25-50) 3-4 sets. So as I've learned squats are a whole body work out, (ideally for NBE). Wink
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My observation FWIF (unscientific) for optimal serum hormone levels goes like this:

NBE
E2 150-200 pg/ML
Total T 100-200 ng/dL (below this and libidos tank)
SHBG 66 nnmol/L


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HRT
E2 400-800 (emulates menstrual cycles)
Total T 25 and below ng/dL (chemical castration)
SHBG 80 nnmol/L

Deny DHT's pathway (as much as possible) at the top of the chain (P450 family of enzymes) seems viable. Classic and side/backdoor leakage of DHT means we're chasing a fathom ghost inhibiting it. And it's time to go ghost hunting lol.


Metabolism of Testosterone, Dihydrotestosterone, Estrone and Estradiol
http://www.ergogenics.org/anabolenboek/index11en.html
The biosynthesis of the sex hormones starts with the oxidation of the side chain of cholesterol, which is catalyzed by the enzyme cytochrome P450scc. This cytochrome P450 oxidizes the side chain on C20 and C22 by the introduction of two hydroxyl groups. After that the chain is broken in between these two atoms by the same enzyme, under formation of pregnenolone.

The next steps in the biosynthesis of testosterone can proceed via two different routes. Pregnenolone can be oxidised first by cytochrome P45017a to 17a-hydroxypregnenolone. This route is known as the 5-ene route because all biosynthetic intermediates in this route possess a D5-double bond.

The enzyme 3b-HSD also can convert pregnenolone first into progesterone by oxidation of the 3b-hydroxy group followed by a shift of the double bond from the C5-C6 to the C4-C5 position. This route is known as the 4-ene route because here all biosynthetic intermediates possess a D4-double bond.

The reduction of testosterone takes place in target tissues like the prostate and the skin and of course metabolism takes place in the liver. In male a very small part (0.2%) of the testosterone is converted into estradiol. This process mainly takes place in adipose tissue and for about 20% in the testes.

The metabolisme of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone takes place for 90% in the liver. There reductases and dehydrogenases catalyse the reactions of the D4-double bond, the C3-carbonyl group and the C17-hydroxyl group. Finally the hydroxyl groups are connected to glucuronic acid or sulphate, followed by excretion with the urine [3] [4].


The biosynthesis of the female sex hormones starts from A-dione and can proceed by two different routes (see Scheme 2). The C17 carbonyl group in A-dione can be reduced first to a 17b-hydroxyl group under formation of testosterone, followed by oxidation and removal of the C19 methyl group and aromatisation of ring A.

The oxidation and removal of the C19 methyl group and the aromatisation of ring A can take place also first, under formation of estrone. Reduction of the carbonyl group at C17 then gives estradiol.

The oxidation of the C19 methyl group is catalyzed by a complex of cytochrome P450 enzymes, indicated with the code P450aromatase or simply as aromatase. The methyl group is first oxidized to a hydroxyl group and than to a carbonyl group (an aldehyde). The removal of this group together with a H-atom from C1 than leads to aromatisation of ring A. An important step in this aromatisation process is the fission of the C10-C19 bond. Also this reaction proceeds in only one direction. In chapter 15 more will be explained about aromatisation of anabolic steroids.
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