[tanysquirrel]

I ve read (somewhere online), that coffee is mildly estrogenic, but it wasn't on that site. That is probably why they say to avoid it while on nbe. Perhaps because it fights for the er's?

I know defacto, the otc migraine pills are just ibuprofen and caffeine. I think someone had told me once that the caffeine pushes the ibuprofen through system faster.

So wouldnt non estrogenic caffeine ( tea) do the same with the nbe estrogen?

[tanysquirrel]

http://www.livestrong.com/article/494320...en-levels/

Not the one i was thinking of, but pretty damn close.

[Marcy]

Hey there bobie,

Maybe you've noticed a shift in fat metabolism? (Fat redistribution, especially subcutaneous) and that's what hrt will do, shift the fat stores to hips and ass, (breast tissue too) plus estrogen drives hunger.

How much vitamin C is in your diet?, it helps oral E metabolize better. Yeah, the processed food isn't doing you any favors, in fact it might be counter productive. Imo it causes oxidative stress, which is almost as bad as xenoestrogens lol. I'm suggesting eating 4-5 smaller meals throughtout the day.

I'm not a calorie counter, if your weight is ok for you great, just shoot for a balanced diet with healthy fats, protein, fruits, veggies (lol), fiber and hydration. Fat satiates, makes us happy, just make sure it's not trans-fat, fatty-acids are actually 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors and aromatase boosters, (man!!) if that isn't a new weapon for NBE I don't know what else is lol.

Since shifting the balance towards healthy fats & proteins in November I added over an inch+ of breast growth, plus the added curves to the hips and bum is quite noticeable lol. The battle over the middle is/will be fought using fatty acids, it's supposed the reduced the gut, or so they say.

Coconut oil is one of those gut busting tools, a couple of tablespoons daily is what's suggested. Walnuts are awesome, I add some dark chocolate morsels and that's a good trail mix to snack on. Snack on blueberries too, rich in antioxidants (which is key for NBE).

Our NBE/HRT plans will fall dreadfully short if diet is not addressed, and the huge amounts of $$$ spent on supplementing goes down the toilet. So, time to kick the whole program in the behind and make it work smarter, not harder don't yah think?.

This is one of my favorite pots of the thead. I'm grateful Lotus.

[myboobs]

The advise of cutting caffeine and smoking is because they create acidic conditions in your digestive system which reduces the absorption on nutrients / minerals . I was vey acidic to the point of often using antacids . But due to regime change for my Ayurveda course under guidance of Ayurveda doctor , my diet is restricted ( still smoke + drink tea with sugar ) only herb taking is soaked tablespoon fenu twice a day . I hadn't seen growth for long time but have seen some volume last month .

[Lotus]

Hi BN,

Here's a new idea to try...........citrus for breast growth (I'll explain). Three key enzymes (cyp 17, cyp 19, cyp 3A4) have direct pathways to breast/androgen synthesis. Cyp 3A4 controls more than 50% of how drugs are metabolized (I'd say that's a major regulator to piggy back off of), the only only issue there is mapping out all these key regulators, (it's like mapping out the genome).


Example: star fruit inhibits CY3A, more potent than grapefruit, ((which if you didn't notice, inhibiting CY3A4 will help with breast growth)).


Potent inhibition by star fruit of human cytochrome P450 3A (CYP3A) activity.
Hidaka M1, Fujita K, Ogikubo T, Yamasaki K, Iwakiri T, Okumura M, Kodama H, Arimori K.
Author information
Abstract
There has been very limited information on the capacities of tropical fruits to inhibit human cytochrome P450 3A (CYP3A) activity. Thus, the inhibitory effects of tropical fruits on midazolam 1'-hydroxylase activity of CYP3A in human liver microsomes were evaluated. Eight tropical fruits such as common papaw, dragon fruit, kiwi fruit, mango, passion fruit, pomegranate, rambutan, and star fruit were tested. We also examined the inhibition of CYP3A activity by grapefruit (white) and Valencia orange as controls. The juice of star fruit showed the most potent inhibition of CYP3A. The addition of a star fruit juice (5.0%, v/v) resulted in the almost complete inhibition of midazolam 1'-hydroxylase activity (residual activity of 0.1%). In the case of grape-fruit, the residual activity was 14.7%. The inhibition depended on the amount of fruit juice added to the incubation mixture (0.2-6.0%, v/v). The elongation of the preincubation period of a juice from star fruit (1.25 or 2.5%, v/v) with the microsomal fraction did not alter the CYP3A inhibition, suggesting that the star fruit did not contain a mechanism-based inhibitor. Thus, we discovered filtered extracts of star fruit juice to be inhibitors of human CYP3A activity in vitro.
PMID: 15155547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text

Here's what I'm thinking, tropicial fruits blocks the androgen pathway, like the enzyme CYP 17 does (inhibit androgen)........and, cyp 19 (is an aromatase promoter).

Inhibit CYP3A4
Inhibit CYP17
induce CYP19

In think incorporating a tropical fruit (call it a lotion?) massage, also adding a polyphenol (green tea extract, androgen inhibitor for max potential). Oral intake will still be the biggest bang though.

Anyways, with help from the one fella, I've got a head start on some of the enzymes (call them coregulators) mapped out. I'll post asap.

This is exciting stuff no? Who knew fruits would prove to be pro breast growth, and a healthy approach too.

[pom19]

That's interesting Lotus. Thanks, POM

[The First Aria]

I am glad your NOT touting Grapefruit. 3 out of my 6 heart med strictly forbids it.

[Lotus]

That's interesting Lotus. Thanks, POM

I am glad your NOT touting Grapefruit. 3 out of my 6 heart med strictly forbids it.

Nah, I'm not going there, grapefruit metabolism is too rapid (it's like the H-BOMB of citrus metabolism).

I'll give my own experience here, I've added 2 oranges per day (sliced) and what I think how it changes bio-active hormones.

Lab tests (October)

Total T @ 52 ng/dL
Estrogen @ 510 pg/mL

December

Total T @ 29 ng/dL
Estrogen 814 pg/mL (normals is 200 range)

December dosage was @ 3 mg of E2 (estradiol) per day, previous was 6-8mg estradiol valerate per day).

Spiro @ 50 mg per day, (oct test result was .5 mg per day of dutaseride).

What does this say?, well for starters it's less meds with higher test results, the only difference I can trace is the oranges.


The 1% crazy shit:

Free Testosterone 0.329 ng/dL = 1.13 %

Bioavailable Testosterone 7.54 ng/dL = 26 %

Edit: these are serum results.

[Lotus]

Btw, PM upregulates luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) in both sexes, a direct feedback from the HPA (hypothalamus pituitary axis). And in women this is what extends their cycles (I call that generic birth control lol).

And........ PM also inhibits (partially) CYP 17 (blocks androgen synthesis) and induces CYP 19 aromatase (pro-breast growth action) some of you might know this action already though.

So, bottom line. If PM is authentic it will equal to about .5mg of E2, that's my opinion FWIW. The reason I say .5 (a rough calculation) is that deoxymiroestrol is 10x stronger than Miroestrol, as this is left out in previous valuations.

[Lotus]

E2 taken sublingualy results in fast metabolism, like within 30-minutes, the half life is longer through the intensial tract, 2-3 days I believe. 1mg micronized tab results in an increase of roughly 29 pg/mL, what further increases this is our enzymes, and like I said, CYP3A4 is a large component of this. I do believe (as some already know this too) E2 inhibits androgen synthesis (the exact amount?, I dunno), albiet in the testes, CYP17? It's Possible, but that's further uptsteam, although it's most likely from 17b HSD and 3b HSD, which are bio-directional in my mind.