[GoneGirl]

Lotus, I'm not bitter, and I don't seek division here. Anyone who reads my posts knows that is not true. My intent in starting this thread is merely to educate people on matters important to the transgender community, starting with basic language that should be used and avoided when discussing transgender matters. Please stop the bullying. It's not your job to moderate this sub-forum.

[WantAPair]

"Transgender" sounds to me like it's describing someone that is in the process of having a sex change, whereas "transgendered" sounds like it's already been done. It's more of a past-tense or plural form of the word. All I'm saying is that the correct usage of English simply dictates that you'd say, "Those people over there are transgendered." But you wouldn't say, "Those people over there are transgender." But, "Chaz Bono is a transgender." would be correct, but you COULD also say, "Chaz Bono is transgendered.", because it's past-tense. It just sounds funny (odd) to drop the "ed", kinda like someone saying, "I don't got any."

As for the word being used for everything across the board, Annie Lennox and Laurie Anderson are androgynous, they tend to dress and look like men (with make-up), but they are not transgendered. (See? It just sounds dumb to say, "they are not transgender" or "they are not a transgender".) As far as I know, they're not even gay! I know Laurie isn't. She used to date/live with Lou Reed. I'm not sure who Annie goes after, if anyone.

[WantAPair]

The N-word is in the dictionary. Do you use that word too? Do you use it even if your audience finds it offensive? No? Then why keep using words that I'm telling you are offensive to many transgender people? I don't call male-identifying cross-dressers 'transvestites', or men who want breasts 'fetishists'. Those words are in Webster's, too.

A LOT of people do! A LOT of them are black!! But, at least that is derived from a place in Africa, Nigeria. Nigerians were brought here and we bastardized the name to "nigger" and made a racial slur out of it. I'm sure "niggardly" is also in the dictionary.

Why wouldn't you? That IS what a cross-dresser is!
Maybe it IS a KIND of fetish to just want tits, but, fetishes USUALLY have to do with sexual preferences...anal sex, foot worshipping during sex, leather, spikes and studs worn during sex, a guy that can ONLY get off wearing women's clothes, people that can't get off without LOADS of abuse, a guy that keeps a slice of cheese in his underwear.

[Lotus]

We know that's not true Clara, your posts are of that of superiority over others. It wasn't hard to notice that as soon as Eve approved the "Male Staying Males" you posted a rebuttal thread "Females staying Female", what's the take away message from that?.........bitterness.


I am the forum moderator, been that way for 18 months or so. I don't flash the badge until it's needed, which this is an occasion to do so. Quite honestly, I would have suggested a more appropriate name for the Gender Sub-Section (which I authored) rather than the generic name, but your actions have caused such a fuss I fell for it too.

Your attempts to expose the forum as evil enity towards TG persons have failed. The forum is open to all, despite your efforts to suggest otherwise, move on and stop the spamming of hate and troll behavior.

[WantAPair]

Clara, just so you know, I COMPLETELY support you doing what you're doing with your body/life!! NOBODY should be told by ANYONE that they CAN'T do what makes them happy, ESPECIALLY with their own body and life, as long as it hurts no one else! If you WERE to get your own forum here, I wouldn't interfere in the LEAST!!!!
If I were in a different societal situation, I'd not only want tits, but the whole ball of wax!! But, I'm stuck in a family that is almost highly religious and very prejudiced!! I, quite often, here them making crude comments about people like you & I or people with darker skin!! I'm actually pretty surprised that they weren't at ALL opposed to me dating an Indian girl in the `90's, who was almost as dark as most black people! Her own family used to make cruel jokes about her being so dark when she was a little girl in India! "No one will ever want to marry you because you're as dark as the niggers!" Her own mother said things like that to her!!
When my sister wanted to have people from her high school band (she played clarinet) and invited the whole band (about 20 people, I think) over to swim in our pool, my dad was FURIOUS because the lead trumpet player was a black kid!!!! As far as dad was concerned, having that kid in our pool would taint the water and he'd actually have to drain it (16' x 32', 3' - 9' deep!!) and put fresh water into it!!!! Not only did he raise the roof, he also had the kid married to my sister!!!! She had to tell him that "he's just a guy in the band, not really even a friend, but I CAN'T invite everyone else in the band and not him!!" Didn't matter to dad!! The night of the party, he went up to my grandmother's house so he wouldn't see his pool water being defiled by that kid's dark skin!!
Yeah!! Right!! Love thy brother!! (What a fucking joke!!) As long as your brother is the same colour and has the same sexual preferences as you!! Otherwise, feel free to destroy them!!
Anyway, take care and give us a big hug!! (((((((((((((((((Clara))))))))))))))))))

[Miranda-nata-est]

Yet another storm in a tea-cup - this time over semantics.

I do think there is a danger that some people have become over sensitised recently and maybe are at times over-reacting.

That there is a pressing need to clarify the terms used in our world has become very clear in this thread .... this actually proves the validity of the thread. In order to discuss things in any sensible manner without the danger of upsetting anyone, we need to know we are using the same, appropriate vocabulary.


I don't think we should be using dictionary definitions here. They are largely irrelevant. Dictionary definitions inherently lag behind the current usage of language and especially language used in terminology. Technical language and that used in specific communities is the most likely to be 'out of date'. Terminology surrounding the transgender world is still evolving rapidly and, as such, is one example of where dictionary definitions are not so very useful.


I am not sure there is one definitive set of up-to-date terms anywhere but the GLAAD definitions might be common ground we can all adopt in the interests of harmony and understanding?

Here in the UK, a good baseline document can be found at :-
http://www.devonpartnership.nhs.uk/Termi...634.0.html

Funnily enough, this document puts me fairly and squarely on the fence in this discussion (and highlights again the need for a universal, worldwide lexicon)


If we look at the definition of Transsexual, it states categorically that this term is an adjective - by extension, we can make the same assumption about 'transgender'

Quote:-
Transsexual: This is an outdated term that was previously used to a person with a binary experience of gender (“I am a man” or “I am a woman”) that is different from their birth-assigned sex; Trans, Trans person, Trans man, Trans woman are more usually preferred. Transsexual still may be used as an adjective but it is discourteous to use it as a noun when referring to someone.


On the other hand, the NHS glossary whilst on one hand supporting the concept of Transgender as an umbrella term, then goes on to state that Transvestisism does not fall under the transgender label. Maybe the NHS umbrella isn't quite big enough??



There doesn't appear to be absolute agreement amongst the professionals which means that heated argument here over specific terms seems to me to be a bit irrelevant.



As I said at the outset, somehow we really, really do need to all be talking the same language.



Miranda

[GOboobs]

Yes, the N-word is in the dictionary. And it actually defines it as an offensive slur. And there's plenty of words that are defined by that or as slang. But not transgendered. As long as we're on the subject, "gendered" is an acceptable form of gender. And gender is the root word in transgender.

And this stance of "we can't go by what the dictionary says" just because it does not support your viewpoint is just silliness.

But let's move past this for a bit and look at the bigger picture. The people in the transgendered community have a hell of a lot of struggles to deal with on a daily basis. If you've gotten to the point where your biggest struggles are the use of an "ed" at the end of a word or that there's a subsection in an online forum that isn't about you, I'd say you are far more lucky than the rest of the community.

It's sad that modern society has gotten to the point where it's constantly trying to find something to be outraged about. People preach about tolerance but then fail to show any of their own. Take a step back and look at what you're getting upset about. Does that "ed" really make an impact in your life? Does the existence of a sub forum cause you hardship? If you're honest with yourself, you know the answer is no. If you feel the answer is yes, I'd suggest you'd look hard at yourself to see what it is that's causing you to have such a negative outlook on life.

[SarahSchilling]

Yes, the N-word is in the dictionary. And it actually defines it as an offensive slur. And there's plenty of words that are defined by that or as slang. But not transgendered. As long as we're on the subject, "gendered" is an acceptable form of gender. And gender is the root word in transgender.

And this stance of "we can't go by what the dictionary says" just because it does not support your viewpoint is just silliness.

But let's move past this for a bit and look at the bigger picture. The people in the transgendered community have a hell of a lot of struggles to deal with on a daily basis. If you've gotten to the point where your biggest struggles are the use of an "ed" at the end of a word or that there's a subsection in an online forum that isn't about you, I'd say you are far more lucky than the rest of the community.

It's sad that modern society has gotten to the point where it's constantly trying to find something to be outraged about. People preach about tolerance but then fail to show any of their own. Take a step back and look at what you're getting upset about. Does that "ed" really make an impact in your life? Does the existence of a sub forum cause you hardship? If you're honest with yourself, you know the answer is no. If you feel the answer is yes, I'd suggest you'd look hard at yourself to see what it is that's causing you to have such a negative outlook on life.

*claps*

[Wuerstchen]

We know that's not true Clara, your posts are of that of superiority over others. It wasn't hard to notice that as soon as Eve approved the "Male Staying Males" you posted a rebuttal thread "Females staying Female", what's the take away message from that?.........bitterness.


I am the forum moderator, been that way for 18 months or so. I don't flash the badge until it's needed, which this is an occasion to do so. Quite honestly, I would have suggested a more appropriate name for the Gender Sub-Section (which I authored) rather than the generic name, but your actions have caused such a fuss I fell for it too.

Your attempts to expose the forum as evil enity towards TG persons have failed. The forum is open to all, despite your efforts to suggest otherwise, move on and stop the spamming of hate and troll behavior.

Well said, Lotus! Thanks for this post!

[GoneGirl]

"Transgender" sounds to me like it's describing someone that is in the process of having a sex change, whereas "transgendered" sounds like it's already been done. It's more of a past-tense or plural form of the word. All I'm saying is that the correct usage of English simply dictates that you'd say, "Those people over there are transgendered." But you wouldn't say, "Those people over there are transgender." But, "Chaz Bono is a transgender." would be correct, but you COULD also say, "Chaz Bono is transgendered.", because it's past-tense. It just sounds funny (odd) to drop the "ed", kinda like someone saying, "I don't got any."

As for the word being used for everything across the board, Annie Lennox and Laurie Anderson are androgynous, they tend to dress and look like men (with make-up), but they are not transgendered. (See? It just sounds dumb to say, "they are not transgender" or "they are not a transgender".) As far as I know, they're not even gay! I know Laurie isn't. She used to date/live with Lou Reed. I'm not sure who Annie goes after, if anyone.

Even Webster's states that the word 'transgender' is an adjective, not a verb. So, grammatically, 'transgendered' is incorrect. But, that wasn't my objection to using 'transgender' as though it were a verb. When someone tells me I'm 'transgendered', the implication is that I was once cisgender, but now I'm transgender. That is, something happened to make me transgender. It was a choice I made, or it was the way my parents raised me, etc. But, there is general consensus today that the state of being transgender already exists at one's birth. I was transgender at birth and I've struggled with the condition practically my entire life.

All I'm saying is that the correct usage of English simply dictates that you'd say, "Those people over there are transgendered." But you wouldn't say, "Those people over there are transgender."

On the contrary, "Those people over there are transgender." is correct grammatically, and shows respect for transgender people. Notice I wrote "transgender people" not "transgendered people" just like you'd say "gay people" instead of "gayed people".

All I'm asking is that people refer to us in a way that is respectful, not offensive. The media makes mistakes like this all the time. Misgendering victims of hate crimes is a prime example. It shows either bias or ignorance on their part. Ignorance can be remedied rather easily; bias not so easily.