Breast Growth For Genetic Males

Reading the various posts here on BN I've noticed a lot of misuse of terminology that can lead to miscommunication, confusion, and even be offensive.

Even a very basic term like 'transgender' is often being misused. Transgender is an umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or gender expression differs from what is typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth So even males who identify as male but intentionally grow breasts, feminize their bodies, or dress in women's clothes are transgender. That is, you don't have to want to be a women to be transgender.

This link gives a basic run down on transgender words:

Transgender Lanuage

Oh, and please stop using the word 'transgendered. Transgender is an adjective, not a verb and not a noun. We don't say that someone is 'gayed' do we? Say: "She is a transgender person" or "She is transgender" not "She is a transgender" or "She is transgendered".

(22-07-2015, 05:29 AM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]Even a very basic term like 'transgender' is often being misused. Transgender is an umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or gender expression differs from what is typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth So even males who identify as male but intentionally grow breasts, feminize their bodies, or dress in women's clothes are transgender. That is, you don't have to want to be a women to be transgender.

I have to disagree with you on that. I went to Persad for about 14 years dealing with this stuff. They specialize in trying to suss out if people that CLAIM they're transgendered (a term even they used a lot and are rather militant about it! I guess it's like the difference between saying someone is retarded, as opposed to saying someone is a retard. Or, someone is unemployed, as opposed to, someone is an unemployee.) and, as I didn't fit the "confines" (for lack of the correct word) of being transgendered, i.e.: knowing from VERY young that I was in the wrong body or feeling like it just HAD to come off every time I looked at my plonker, not being able to WAIT anymore to become a woman, they would never call me that! I went to me weekly sessions wearing a skirt, bra, C or D cup sized tits, tight t-shirts so my tits were VERY evident, quite often shaving my legs and even wearing pantyhose sometimes, I even shaved my pits a few times!! But, to them, I was just a cross-dresser and NOT transgendered.
The way they see it, a transgendered person is not someone that is gay, or that just wears women's clothes from time to time, is just a "chick with a dick", or a guy that just wants to grow tits. For that matter, that was actually pretty new to them!! They couldn't figure out why I would just be okay with being a guy with tits, but not the chop-chop! They see a transgendered person or a transsexual as someone pre-op that lives as a woman full time and has most DEFINITE plans of getting a sex change or has already had one!

https://www.persadcenter.org/

WAP, your post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

A person is born with a fixed gender identity and sexual orientation. They can't be transgendered any more that a person can be gayed. If someone says, "My friend Clara is transgendered." It implies that I was born with male gender identity, but somewhere along the way, someone or something changed me to have a female gender identity. That's not possible. They should have said, "My friend Clara is transgender." or "My friend Clara is a transgender person."

The gerund "transgendered" implies a verb "to transgender" which is meaningless.

It seems like a trivial distinction, but to many trans men and women, the use of that word (transgendered) perpetuates the myth that being transgender is a choice, a mental illness, or deviant behavior.

Clara

There is actually quite a bit of confusion everywhere about the terminology most appropriately used (or so I have found).

There is also an apparent difference here in the UK compared with the US.

For example 'Transsexual' is a term now deprecated by many (but not all) in the UK, Trans woman, Trans male, etc. being seen as more appropriate. I've been using TS here on BN as this a predominantly US site and this appears to be the standard. To be honest, these labels and terminologies don't really matter to me at all - but if they are causing problems of mis-understandings, then I guess we should try to agree on some universal conventions.

One that I have found complete agreement on though until today, 'Transgender' is the accepted blanket term for everyone dealing with gender issues in one or more of the many diverse forms this can take.

Miranda

I think the term "transsexual" is losing universal acceptance here in the U.S., too. I guess it's because it implies some kind of link to sexual behavior as inaccurate as that is. Yes, the terms "trans woman" and "trans man", which are shortened forms for "transsexual woman" and "transsexual man", are preferred by many, but they are somewhat ambiguous, too, because "trans" is also short for "transgender" which, again, is an umbrella description for all gender variant people. Some of my cross-dressing friends identify as bi-gender. When in female mode they will refer to themselves as a "trans woman" even when they have no intention of transitioning to living full time as a woman. I almost always have to ask if they are full-time or not to understand where they are on the spectrum.

People poo-poo labels, but there is a place for them when talking about where one falls on the gender spectrum. For 95% of my interaction with people the only label that applies to me is "woman". When talking to others specifically about transgender issues, labels for other major trans groupings are indispensable.

Clara

(22-07-2015, 04:13 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]WAP, your post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

A person is born with a fixed gender identity and sexual orientation. They can't be transgendered any more that a person can be gayed. If someone says, "My friend Clara is transgendered." It implies that I was born with male gender identity, but somewhere along the way, someone or something changed me to have a female gender identity. That's not possible. They should have said, "My friend Clara is transgender." or "My friend Clara is a transgender person."

The gerund "transgendered" implies a verb "to transgender" which is meaningless.

It seems like a trivial distinction, but to many trans men and women, the use of that word (transgendered) perpetuates the myth that being transgender is a choice, a mental illness, or deviant behavior.

Clara

I think it'd just imply that, as far as society was concerned, you were a male, but YOU 'chose" (for lack of the correct word, because it's NOT something you simply CHOOSE, like in the first season of "Soap" where Jody CHOSE to have a sex change just so he could stay with his famous boyfriend and they'd be seen as a normal couple.) to have your body match your mindset. The point is, it is YOU, not some outside source, that is responsible for the want/need of a sex change.
I'm also not quite so sure you're using the word in the correct context.
It simply sounds like improper English, to me. As I said before, would it sound okay to say (just using your example,. not calling you names), "My friend, Clara, is retard." or "My friend, Clara, is a retard person."
A verb is an action, I don't see an action pertaining to "transgendered" any more than there is one pertaining to "retarded". If anything, they'd be conditions. And, before you go there, I'm NOT implying that being transgendered is ANY kind off illness or disease! Neither is retardation, but at least we can do something about the former! Maybe, someday, soon, "Flowers For Algernon" will actually come to pass, too!

I don't know, my two closest TS friends both call themselves and all of their TS friends, "transgendered", and one of them is in charge of a local group for transgendered people called, Trans Pitt. Her name is, Wendi Miller. Of all the transgendered people I've met in my life, you're the only one I know of that doesn't like the word all others choose to refer to themselves.
And, just so you know, I'm NOT pitching a bitch, I'm just calmly, casually having a discussion with you!
Take care!! :-)

Here's what GLAAD says about transgender language:

GLAAD Media Reference Guide

Note in the section Terms to Avoid:

Problematic: "transgenders," "a transgender"
Preferred: transgender people, a transgender person
Transgender should be used as an adjective, not as a noun. Do not say, "Tony is a transgender," or "The parade included many transgenders." Instead say, "Tony is a transgender man," or "The parade included many transgender people."

Problematic: "transgendered"
Preferred: transgender
The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, and bisexual. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered."

Fully agree with WAP. A man wishing to have a female characteristic or wear clothing does not make that man transgendered (and more on the "ed" in a minute) Those things do not mean that their gender identity does not match their physical sex. Would you say that guy who intentionally grows his hair long or gets his ears pierced as transgendered? Of course not. And what about all the metrosexuals?

Now, about the whole "ed" of transgendered. Merriam-Webster's dictionary does recognize "transgendered" as an acceptable variant of the word transgender (they also recognize transgenderism.) They are far more of an expert on the english language than you or I or even GLAAD. (I'd post Oxford's stance but I'm not paying $30 a month for a freaking online dictionary. And for us Americans, Webster's is our go to source.)

It is true the English language in constantly evolving, and maybe someday "transgendered" will be removed from Webster's. But until then, don't take it as an attack or insult if someone uses that word. And even if Webster's does someday remove it, still be prepared to use it with no ill intent as it's simply what they're used to and removing a word from Webster's does not automatically remove it from everyone's vocabulary. This is just one of those times where the TG community needs to show some tolerance.

The N-word is in the dictionary. Do you use that word too? Do you use it even if your audience finds it offensive? No? Then why keep using words that I'm telling you are offensive to many transgender people? I don't call male-identifying cross-dressers 'transvestites', or men who want breasts 'fetishists'. Those words are in Webster's, too.

(24-07-2015, 03:12 AM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]I don't call male-identifying cross-dressers 'transvestites', or men who want breasts 'fetishists'.

Yeah, you did:

(11-07-2015, 12:44 AM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]How about creating a new group specifically for us transgender types? We'd have a place to meet without interference from the guys with a breast fetish. Not that we would exclude anyone, but many here prefer not to associate with us, anyway.


Clara

Clara, I have to say you've become a bitter person on this forum, you are the one person who seeks division between "US", yes us, because it is just us here, that being "All People".

Stop the Drama.