(24-02-2015, 05:57 PM)spanky Wrote: (24-02-2015, 05:06 AM)Lotus Wrote: I'd just stick with 1 (vitex or red clover), then......add in free fatty acids.
The point being they (phyto's) could interfere with each other.
Trying to follow the discussion and links (some WAY over my head) -- are you suggesting that Vitex might be a better alternative than PM? Sorry to be a reductionist, but when the science gets dense, that is what I become.
ER-b (estrogen receptor beta) slows breast growth, which is great in preventing cancer, but if you have a phytoestrogens that have an affinity for this receptor it means very slow growth. PM has multiple phyto's that favor the ER-b type, this is why it takes longer. Dexy & miroestrol are definelly the stronger phyto's of PM (granted), they have an affinity for ER-a (growth receptor).
But still, daidzien in PM opposes E2 action, it acts like a phyto-androgen.
You'd want a phytoestrogen that favors the growth receptor alpha (ER-a) but not to aggressive. Vitex and RC look like they fit the task. Now you add in coconut oil, (which is for building tissue and blocking 5 ar, and aromatase). A strong plamitic acid needs to be sourced though (Palm oil ???? I dunno yet) something in the palm family. Saw Palmetto??, I'm still not sure about that one yet, it still down-regulates progesterone receptors, so still searching.
Buttttt, Estrogen receptor alpha is made up from palmitoylated protein, which is palmitic acid, this is why it's the holy grail.
ERa is a palmitoylated protein
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2246083/
Meaning if you take a palm product before supplementing with something like vitex or RC the door (estrogen receptor alpha) is left open. Fatty acids like coconut oil, or anything in the omega 3-6-7-9 family will help with growth.
Make sense?,
my program has combo of 8 diffrent herbs +PM and fenu , as listed in my thread 
