30-04-2013, 04:31 PM
First, let me say that the faq as it stands is a great start. It is a good collection of common questions and has answers for all of them. I'm sure lots of us have a few thoughts on some of the questions and answers and it is good of flame to volunteer to coordinate the input and maintain the faq document. I also think the document may be a lot easier to maintain and review if we make each question its own post on the blog. Editing, updating, or enhancing a question or its answer won't require changing the entire document and will make it a lot easier to identify updates for readers. That blog won't be used for anything else, I created it purely to hold this stuff. Thoughts?
This thread is probably a good place for us to hash out some of these questions, rather than people sending individual feedback to flame, creating a lot of work for flame. So here is my take on some of the questions in the faq, with suggestions for content enhancements. Ones I don't give thoughts on I like as they are, or have no knowledge/experience of, or have no value to add. If there are additional topics, or people who feel they have lots to contribute to a particular question, I am perfectly happy to add them as authors to the blog, and they can post/maintain those topics.
I won't repeat the posted q&a, but will simply give some thoughts which I believe I can help improve the faq. These are my views and I expect they can be improved upon as well.
1. The stronger the phytoestrogen, the faster the results has been my experience. PM works faster than things like FG, RC, etc. with respect to complete breast development. Pharmaceuticals are even faster. Implants are not development, but really just another kind of breast form. I would hope no-one can be confused into thinking getting implants would cause any actual breast development, but you never know.
3. First signs may be noticing some accumulation of fatty tissue on the chest. For me, the first sign something was happening was itchy nipples. That happened within 2 weeks. The fat accumulation happened later for me. I also personally don't think fat redistribution is a good term for us. It implies things physically move which they don't. I prefer to call it changes in body fat distribution or accumulation.
4. I'm thinking the point at which you find the little bump behind the nipples, or first notice a more solid feeling mass around the nipples is the beginning of female breast development, and might be the point of no return for tissue you will be stuck with if you change your mind. If point of no return means loss of male function, I think for most that happens quite a bit further on than the start of duct/nodule building behind the nipples. For some, male function doesn't appear to be completely lost at all. The same can be said for male appendage size.
7. Side effects do vary quite a bit. Side effects I have seen described may include headaches, muscle aches, back pain, upset stomach, diarrhea, body odour changes, and minor blood pressure changes. It really depends on the individual, which herbs or herb mix they are taking in what doses, and a lot more factors than we can take into account in this faq.
8. Boy, I don't like the term brain rewiring. It implies permanent changes regardless of whether we continue the herbs or not, and I just don't believe that happens. I have gone cold turkey enough times to tell you that when you go off the herbs long enough, your old self will come back. I know there is a mental effect from the phytoestrogens. I just don't think it is a rewiring or permanent change. I would rather see this called something like mental changes, or emotional changes or adjustments, or perspective change. The changes I know of include aggression reduction, decrease in anxiety, increase in patience (for everything but boobies!), and decreased desire to cross-dress or obsess about or focus on gender or sex for some. Whether it promotes or reduces a desire to transition is questionable in my mind. I think it may helps to remove some of the anxiety, impatience, and obsession which may make it harder for a person to decide how they feel about transitioning, but I don't it makes anyone want to transition. It may well simply be an alternative to transitioning for those who want to feel more female, but don't necessarily want to be genitally female.
9. Don't some folks cycle or modulate their intake using other patterns than the female monthly cycle? I thought the primary benefit of cycling was to cause a change in ER activity since for many of us, that is when a growth spurt seems to happen. Nobody believes our bodies are similar enough to female bodies to actually be affected by the same frequency of hormonal changes, do they? The female body is a lot more complex than just whether and when ER receptors are activated. Choosing a monthly pattern is probably as good as any other pattern, but I wouldn't go so far as to suggest the timing of the much greater complexity of the female body has much to do with growing boobs on male bodies. Our glands and organs probably negate much of what affects female monthly timing. At the least not having the ovaries shuffling eggs along probably changes the cycle.
10. I think we need to have a links post in the blog to link to sites we believe present these kinds of topics. Estrogen dominance is a theory which has a lot of controversy, and not much actual science I've ever seen. Almost all of the sites I have seen on this topic, usually end up referring back to John Lee as the sole rock this theory balances on. If there is good peer-reviewed science available on this, I'd be interested to see it.
13. Same comment about fat redistribution as above. In addition to the changes you noted, the other noticeable change a lot of people report fairly early in their NBE is softer skin.
16. A comment here that trying wearing forms or even something stuffed into a sports bra and seeing how you do at hiding them is a good way for a newbie to explore how he really feels about being noticed for having breasts.
21. It is worth noting here that underage posters (definition varies by country) may get less response or guarded responses simply because a forum like this by its nature does not have the ability to make recommendations that take the whole recipient into account. We can only respond to what we are made aware of. Very often people present less than the whole situation when seeking advice on socially-discouraged topics. The aspect of this that affects young people is the moral and legal liability of the advice givers who usually acknowledge the impact that life experience has on the ability of the recipient to fully evaluate the implications of the advice given. In other words, the young are viewed to some extent as very probably not mature or experienced enough to be doing this without help from real-life people who know them and preferably are trained in this professionally.
23. Isn't this really just a form of cycling? Does it need a separate q&a or should it be part of the answer to #9?
24. What is the "chairs" thing? Typo...
Awesome start flame! Let's rock this thing.
This thread is probably a good place for us to hash out some of these questions, rather than people sending individual feedback to flame, creating a lot of work for flame. So here is my take on some of the questions in the faq, with suggestions for content enhancements. Ones I don't give thoughts on I like as they are, or have no knowledge/experience of, or have no value to add. If there are additional topics, or people who feel they have lots to contribute to a particular question, I am perfectly happy to add them as authors to the blog, and they can post/maintain those topics.
I won't repeat the posted q&a, but will simply give some thoughts which I believe I can help improve the faq. These are my views and I expect they can be improved upon as well.
1. The stronger the phytoestrogen, the faster the results has been my experience. PM works faster than things like FG, RC, etc. with respect to complete breast development. Pharmaceuticals are even faster. Implants are not development, but really just another kind of breast form. I would hope no-one can be confused into thinking getting implants would cause any actual breast development, but you never know.
3. First signs may be noticing some accumulation of fatty tissue on the chest. For me, the first sign something was happening was itchy nipples. That happened within 2 weeks. The fat accumulation happened later for me. I also personally don't think fat redistribution is a good term for us. It implies things physically move which they don't. I prefer to call it changes in body fat distribution or accumulation.
4. I'm thinking the point at which you find the little bump behind the nipples, or first notice a more solid feeling mass around the nipples is the beginning of female breast development, and might be the point of no return for tissue you will be stuck with if you change your mind. If point of no return means loss of male function, I think for most that happens quite a bit further on than the start of duct/nodule building behind the nipples. For some, male function doesn't appear to be completely lost at all. The same can be said for male appendage size.
7. Side effects do vary quite a bit. Side effects I have seen described may include headaches, muscle aches, back pain, upset stomach, diarrhea, body odour changes, and minor blood pressure changes. It really depends on the individual, which herbs or herb mix they are taking in what doses, and a lot more factors than we can take into account in this faq.
8. Boy, I don't like the term brain rewiring. It implies permanent changes regardless of whether we continue the herbs or not, and I just don't believe that happens. I have gone cold turkey enough times to tell you that when you go off the herbs long enough, your old self will come back. I know there is a mental effect from the phytoestrogens. I just don't think it is a rewiring or permanent change. I would rather see this called something like mental changes, or emotional changes or adjustments, or perspective change. The changes I know of include aggression reduction, decrease in anxiety, increase in patience (for everything but boobies!), and decreased desire to cross-dress or obsess about or focus on gender or sex for some. Whether it promotes or reduces a desire to transition is questionable in my mind. I think it may helps to remove some of the anxiety, impatience, and obsession which may make it harder for a person to decide how they feel about transitioning, but I don't it makes anyone want to transition. It may well simply be an alternative to transitioning for those who want to feel more female, but don't necessarily want to be genitally female.
9. Don't some folks cycle or modulate their intake using other patterns than the female monthly cycle? I thought the primary benefit of cycling was to cause a change in ER activity since for many of us, that is when a growth spurt seems to happen. Nobody believes our bodies are similar enough to female bodies to actually be affected by the same frequency of hormonal changes, do they? The female body is a lot more complex than just whether and when ER receptors are activated. Choosing a monthly pattern is probably as good as any other pattern, but I wouldn't go so far as to suggest the timing of the much greater complexity of the female body has much to do with growing boobs on male bodies. Our glands and organs probably negate much of what affects female monthly timing. At the least not having the ovaries shuffling eggs along probably changes the cycle.
10. I think we need to have a links post in the blog to link to sites we believe present these kinds of topics. Estrogen dominance is a theory which has a lot of controversy, and not much actual science I've ever seen. Almost all of the sites I have seen on this topic, usually end up referring back to John Lee as the sole rock this theory balances on. If there is good peer-reviewed science available on this, I'd be interested to see it.
13. Same comment about fat redistribution as above. In addition to the changes you noted, the other noticeable change a lot of people report fairly early in their NBE is softer skin.
16. A comment here that trying wearing forms or even something stuffed into a sports bra and seeing how you do at hiding them is a good way for a newbie to explore how he really feels about being noticed for having breasts.
21. It is worth noting here that underage posters (definition varies by country) may get less response or guarded responses simply because a forum like this by its nature does not have the ability to make recommendations that take the whole recipient into account. We can only respond to what we are made aware of. Very often people present less than the whole situation when seeking advice on socially-discouraged topics. The aspect of this that affects young people is the moral and legal liability of the advice givers who usually acknowledge the impact that life experience has on the ability of the recipient to fully evaluate the implications of the advice given. In other words, the young are viewed to some extent as very probably not mature or experienced enough to be doing this without help from real-life people who know them and preferably are trained in this professionally.
23. Isn't this really just a form of cycling? Does it need a separate q&a or should it be part of the answer to #9?
24. What is the "chairs" thing? Typo...
Awesome start flame! Let's rock this thing.