[Heaven's Night]

I always understood applying Oestrogen directly to breasts as a bad idea due to the increased risk of breast cancer.

Read the thread, there's a reason why it definitely works without elevated risks. Both topical progesterone and DHEA will lower the breast cancer risk. Just quoting from memory so better go read the associated studies posts. There's also a thing about balancing E2 with E3, also DHEA will elevate locally all three estrogens and these have a fun tendency to work in a balance. I wouldn't be worried, this is completely different thing than applying fuckton of estradiol on its own.

Something to ponder upon, boosting growth hormone and growth factors could potentially be dangerous if there's reason to suspect a cancer. Cancer cells eat up the very same stuff that all growth needs. So we should do what ever we can to keep risks low so as much of cell division is healthy as possible. Appropriate dosings and healthy lifestyle help a lot.

[Shiki]

DMSO is great for what it does, but we definitely do not want too high concentration or too high dosage. Interestingly it might be capable of exciting fat cell division, it will make skin more elastic and allows hugely improved absorbtion. But too high doses might actually end up killing fat cells and we don't want that. I think its the best to use 10% - 20% concentration and dosage can be moderate, it works amazingly and doesn't need to be overdone. So far it seems that there are no notable side effects either when its done like this.

Hi there! Just getting started on my NBE journey since HRT has not been sating my "boob greed" enough in the past year
How do you reach that concentration of DMSO? The one I found says it's 99.9% Pharma Grade and after reading about the possible negative results that DMSO can produce (with being such a powerful solvent) I'm concerned with using it with products that I don't 100% know what's in it (Obviously don't want any heavy metals or nasty preservative junk permeating the skin barrier).

I've read distilled water is good for dilution? Additionally, if you don't mind providing a brand, what Prog cream do you use? Your results from what I've seen have been fantastic and, I know YMMV and all, want to mimic even a fraction of what you've accomplished.

[Heaven's Night]

DMSO is great for what it does, but we definitely do not want too high concentration or too high dosage. Interestingly it might be capable of exciting fat cell division, it will make skin more elastic and allows hugely improved absorbtion. But too high doses might actually end up killing fat cells and we don't want that. I think its the best to use 10% - 20% concentration and dosage can be moderate, it works amazingly and doesn't need to be overdone. So far it seems that there are no notable side effects either when its done like this.

Hi there! Just getting started on my NBE journey since HRT has not been sating my "boob greed" enough in the past year
How do you reach that concentration of DMSO? The one I found says it's 99.9% Pharma Grade and after reading about the possible negative results that DMSO can produce (with being such a powerful solvent) I'm concerned with using it with products that I don't 100% know what's in it (Obviously don't want any heavy metals or nasty preservative junk permeating the skin barrier).

I've read distilled water is good for dilution? Additionally, if you don't mind providing a brand, what Prog cream do you use? Your results from what I've seen have been fantastic and, I know YMMV and all, want to mimic even a fraction of what you've accomplished.

Hi, this is the one I'm using, from Amazon Germany: DMSO It says 99,9% purity, that's not same as concentration which on this cream is 20%. Its 100 grams, 80g is simple cream base and the rest is pure DSMO. You can get it on higher concentration and just carefully dose it correctly mixed with what ever creams you will use, of course the premade one is so much easier to deal with. From my experience I can say that DMSO doesn't need to be dosed high to work, and low to moderate dosing is hugely beneficial to absorbtion rate and it might help excite fat cell division which is amazing "side effect" on TCP.

You could make your own 10% or 20% version by just mixing the pure DMSO with some thick cream base? I know there are 40% and 50% versions sold, those could be easily diluted to correct concentration. DIstilled water might work ok, but some type of cream base might be more practical as part of the topical protocol. Easier to apply and not much of a mess and other ingredients could easy be mixed in with it.

The progesterone cream I'm on is Smoky Mountain Nutrition one, the same Lotus talked about and linked not long ago.

Thank you so much, last several months in particular have been mind (And bra!) blowing, thanks to some program tweaks and the amazing science of TCP being amazing. This program is truly a game changing one, I'm sure you and many others can greatly benefit from it. I really like it because its almost like a modular program which has core pieces and then a lot which can be mixed and matched to enhance it.

[KittKat]

Hey hi!

Long time lurker, infrequent poster.  

I have read through this thread on the TCP and am very excited by the promise it holds.
I do have a couple a questions though.

A little background first.
I started my journey back in 2020 and have spent the last five years on and off making some but really very minimal progress due to very obstinate T.
The best results I had (based on blood work) was when I was dosing four times a day (approx every 4 waking hours).  I was able to get my T down to 100ng/pl. This speaks to one of the comments in the thread about ever 4 hours in small doses being better than less frequent higher doses.

My current program is
Orally:
3x daily
500mg Bovine Ovary (Swanson)
1 ml White Peony extract (Hawaii Pharm)

On Waking
(1) D3 + K2 + MSM (British Vitamins)
(1) Chelated Mineral Complex (magnesium, potassium, calcium, Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper, Iodine, Chromium, Selenium (British Vitamins)

Throughout the day
4+ measured cups of green tea with Ginger, Licorice, Spearmint, and Fenugreek

Before bed
Dutasteride .4mg for hair loss
4000mg MSM (SulferHealth) + 1 ml chilli extract (Hawaii Pharm)+ 2 tbs (approx) cider vinegar in a glass of water.
.5 ml E1 (BioLABs PRO Estriol Max) rectally

My questions are:

1. Could cream be replaced with oil?  
   The BioLABs E1 is suspended in MCT oil, would there be anything wrong with combining BioLABs PRO Estriol MAX and DHEA oils and adding BO and RC? (Without buds I am not including Prog)
2. Is there a preferred suspension for extracts?  
   I understand Lotus stays away from alcohol based extracts, but I would okay with them if as I understand it alcohol aids in absorption.
3. I am thinking of making my cocktail in larger batches and then dosing out with a dropper or syringe to save time in the evenings.  
   Does that seem reasonable?
4. Finally, is once a day before bed enough or should I be applying this every 4 hours to maintain levels?
   

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment.
-Kit

[Lotus]

Hi KittKat, can you share your lab results? I'd like to see how your labs are looking like having been on your plan. Thanks 

[Shiki]

Hey hi!

Long time lurker, infrequent poster.  

I have read through this thread on the TCP and am very excited by the promise it holds.
I do have a couple a questions though.

A little background first.
I started my journey back in 2020 and have spent the last five years on and off making some but really very minimal progress due to very obstinate T.
The best results I had (based on blood work) was when I was dosing four times a day (approx every 4 waking hours).  I was able to get my T down to 100ng/pl. This speaks to one of the comments in the thread about ever 4 hours in small doses being better than less frequent higher doses.

My current program is
Orally:
3x daily
500mg Bovine Ovary (Swanson)
1 ml White Peony extract (Hawaii Pharm)

On Waking
(1) D3 + K2 + MSM (British Vitamins)
(1) Chelated Mineral Complex (magnesium, potassium, calcium, Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper, Iodine, Chromium, Selenium (British Vitamins)

Throughout the day
4+ measured cups of green tea with Ginger, Licorice, Spearmint, and Fenugreek

Before bed
Dutasteride .4mg for hair loss
4000mg MSM (SulferHealth) + 1 ml chilli extract (Hawaii Pharm)+ 2 tbs (approx) cider vinegar in a glass of water.
.5 ml E1 (BioLABs PRO Estriol Max) rectally

My questions are:

1. Could cream be replaced with oil?  
   The BioLABs E1 is suspended in MCT oil, would there be anything wrong with combining BioLABs PRO Estriol MAX and DHEA oils and adding BO and RC? (Without buds I am not including Prog)
   
2. Is there a preferred suspension for extracts?  
   I understand Lotus stays away from alcohol based extracts, but I would okay with them if as I understand it alcohol aids in absorption.
   
3. I am thinking of making my cocktail in larger batches and then dosing out with a dropper or syringe to save time in the evenings.  
   Does that seem reasonable?
   
4. Finally, is once a day before bed enough or should I be applying this every 4 hours to maintain levels?
   

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment.
-Kit

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that dutasteride is a testosterone blocker not a full "anti-androgen". So while your T levels wont go down your body is unable to process the T that is in your system. For that reason I chose spiro so that I could better monitor my blood levels (cypro is technically better but it's not available in the US and it technically can have very severe consequences for using it long term)


On a completely different note I just wanted to report back to everyone (and any doubters) in the thread:
I've been on .125 ml of EV (5mg E2) every 3.5 days, 100 mg spiro (50 2/day), and 1 mg Finasteride since Jan 27, 2024 (Bloodwork: E2 311-456 pg/dl, T 12-21 ng/dl) and saw an "okay" amount of breast growth (42B/maybe C). I started following a version of Heaven's NBE supplements + topical protocol minus the E cream, cayenne, red clover, and BO earlier this month and have already seen significant results in fullness. Of course YMMV and I am aware I'm still pretty early in my journey, but to see such rapid growth so quickly is mind blowing. I will also be starting 100 mg of P4 this month and am looking forward to what additional changes adding that will bring!

For those in the US these are the products I use for topical use:
DMSO (5 drops)
Volufiline (10 drops)
DHEA (1 opened capsule)
Prog Cream (2 pumps)
Adjustable Micro Needle stamp [Amazon discontinued  ] (1.75 on breast and 1.25-5 on areolae depending on my pain tolerance that day)

and NBE supplements:

BO (3 morning, 4 evening)
L-tyrosine (2 morning)
Omega3 (2 morning)
GABA (2 afternoon; 30 minutes before lunch)
Acetyl L-carnitine (1 evening before bed)
L-ornithine powder (1/4 tsp)
MSM powder (3 tsp)
Vitex (4 evening before bed)
EPO (Omega6) (2 evening before bed)

(If anyone has any tips on how to take the powders more easily I would appreciate if you shot me a DM so we don't clog up the topical thread with supplement talk. They taste VILE even mixed with flavored sparkling water or orange juice)

[wee2er]

For those of us on topical, whats the thinking / opinions on the diffrent types of DMSO available, as in gel, cream, liquid?

I'm looking at one suppler who has various options, all premium 99.9% purity (not industrial-use) either gel based with/out Aloe Vera in differing concentrations of DMSO 50~90%,  but they also offer a 'ready to use' liquid at 70%. All diluted with demineralised water.

My current topical regime consists of:

• Disinfect area (thighs and hips) and let it dry
  
• Derma roll each area (just started doing this, prickly ouch!)
  
• Slap on a thin layer of aloe vera gel
  
• Mix my dry (DHEA, BO & MG) & wet ingredients 3-pumps of Prog, pea sized blob of Estrogel, and 10xdrops of RC
  
• Once mixed and aloe vera has had a few mins to soak in, I apply the above
  
• Rub mixture in for a minute or two, then add a dropper of cayenne extract and 10 drops of RC to each area 
  
• Rub this all in - then THOROUGHLY wash hands!
  
• Let it absorb for 10-mins before putting my covering
  

Is adding DMSO going to aid absorption?

I've discounted the Aloe versions as I already have that in my regime, but unsure if gel or liquid would be best or where I add it into the regime?

Any wise words please?

[Heaven's Night]

Yes, DMSO greatly enhances absorbtion rate. How much I'm not sure, but I've seen as high as five times being quoted somewhere. No source for this claim right now, but I can tell that using DMSO has helped a lot, I notice it right away from the speed on which everything just soaks right in.

[Stevenator_]

DMSO is also good for joint pain. The carrier oil I use is a 50/50 mix of DMSO & Cator Oil.

[wee2er]

Many thanks HH & Stevenator xx

I've read about it helping joint pain and nerve damage so may well be beneficial for my knak'd knees and wrists 

The one I'm looking at is from Regency Organics Ltd and along with other sources says it cant be use neat and must be diluted, which Stevantor yours is, but HH the Amazon DE one you have doesn't seem to be diluted.

So maybe I go with the 70% diluted with de-mineralised water DMSO as I am already using Aloe Vera which I presume will dilute the DMSO further, or I might play safe and use their 'ready to use' DMSO which is 70% and 30% de-mineralised water.

Then routine wise, apply the DMSO, then the Aloe Vera, let both start to soak in before applying my DHEA etc mix.

I'll do a bit more research so thanks for the replies