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The use of Vitex with BO

#1

Hi


Kinda curious about this, Ive read of some people using Vitex with BO. I have an understanding of its affects and uses, it kinda seems like it wouldn't work well with BO. But I'm interested to hear other knowledgeable opinions about this and or experiences. An opinion from Lotus herself would also be phenomenal, involving this subject.


Thanks




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#2

Females use it to lower the testosterone and balance its effects so they don't become estrogen dominant, but males you'd not want to use it as it lowers over all testosterone which if you need it to be aromatised then its counter productive, Blocking DHT works the same way ( using red reshi or saw palmetto) as it stops the conversion of free testosterone to DHT whihc in turn gives more to be aromotised by the BO/ Aromatase function, thats my take on it anyway?

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#3

Hi Elyse, 

Here's some vitex info I posted some years ago, it may not be specific to your question but it gives dosage amounts forits use. Perhaps you can tell me your understanding of what vitex does so I can tell whether it's fact or fiction, and also what specific goal you have in mind. Smile I'll follow up with more info on vitex asap, lately I've been super busy and haven't been very active on BN, which makes me sad.  Sad   
(27-08-2016, 12:20 AM)Lotus Wrote:  I was asked information about Vitex, I hope it helps, apologies some parts are complex.

Vitex works through the HPA (hypothalamus-pituitary axis). It (vitex) increases LH (luteinizing hormone) production while inhibiting the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone), leading to an indirect increase in progesterone and a normalization of prolactin levels.

effects of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1) on prolactin secretion in healthy male subjects.
Merz PG1, Gorkow C, Schrödter A, Rietbrock S, Sieder C, Loew D, Dericks-Tan JS, Taubert HD.
Author information


Abstract
The effects of three doses of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1)--extracts from 120 mg, 240 mg and 480 mg of drug per day--were examined within the framework of a placebo-controlled clinical study of tolerance and prolactin secretion in 20 healthy male subjects during a period of 14 days. There was good tolerance during the study as regards the following: adverse effects, the effects on blood pressure and heart rate, blood count, Quick's test, clinical chemistry as well as testosterone, FSH and LH values. During each study phase the 24-hour prolactin secretion profile was measured from the penultimate to the final day, and the amount of prolactin release was monitored an hour after TRH stimulation on the last day. A significant increase in the 24-hour profile was registered with the lowest dose in comparison to placebo, the opposite being the case with the higher doses, i.e. a slight reduction. In contrast to the administration of placebo, the 1-hour AUC after TRH stimulation resulted in a significant increase with the lowest dose and a significant reduction with the highest dose. The results suggest effects of the special Agnus castus extract which are dependent on the dose administered and the initial level of prolactin concentration

* In this study below 20 patients out of 43 patients reported 37 adverse events (AE) on 20 mg dose
Efficacy of Vitex agnus castus L. extract Ze 440 in patients with pre-menstrual syndrome (PMS).
In conclusion, patients with PMS can be treated successfully with Vitex agnus-castus extract Ze 440, as indicated by clear improvement in the main effect parameter during treatment and the gradual return after cessation of treatment. The main response to treatment seems related to symptomatic relief rather than to the duration of the syndrome.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11129515

__________________________________


40mg dose was well tolerated in this study of 207 participants that decreased from 26.17+/-4.79 to 9.92+/-9.01 for the treatment group:

This resouce (the best I've seen on VITEX) has 13 separate trail analysis: Big Grin

Vitex agnus-castus Extracts for Female Reproductive Disorders: A Systematic Review of Clinical Trials
https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/...32-1327831


Finally:

At low dose (120mg per day) of chasteberry (vitex), prolactin production is stimulated, while at higher dose (240-480mg per day) prolactin production is decreased.
http://www.diagnose-me.com/treatment/vit...berry.html

So.... Bottom line, it looks as little as 20mg could work, though 40mg to 120mg makes better sense.
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#4

(19-05-2022, 12:22 PM)Unknowntraveller89 Wrote:  

Females use it to lower the testosterone and balance its effects so they don't become estrogen dominant, but males you'd not want to use it as it lowers over all testosterone which if you need it to be aromatised then its counter productive, Blocking DHT works the same way ( using red reshi or saw palmetto) as it stops the conversion of free

testosterone to DHT whihc in turn gives more to be aromotised by the BO/ Aromatase function, thats my take on it anyway?


Hi Unknowntraveller

That's a good view point you make. I've heard of red reshi and saw palmetto, saw palmetto especially for it's anti-androgen affects. Are they good to take with BO?


Reply
#5

(19-05-2022, 06:56 PM)Lotus Wrote:  Hi Elyse, 

Here's some vitex info I posted some years ago, it may not be specific to your question but it gives dosage amounts forits use. Perhaps you can tell me your understanding of what vitex does so I can tell whether it's fact or fiction, and also what specific goal you have in mind. Smile" alt="Smile" title="Smile"> I'll follow up with more info on vitex asap, lately I've been super busy and haven't been very active on BN, which makes me sad.  Sad" alt="Sad" title="Sad">   
(27-08-2016, 12:20 AM)Lotus Wrote:  I was asked information about Vitex, I hope it helps, apologies some parts are complex.

Vitex works through the HPA (hypothalamus-pituitary axis). It (vitex) increases LH (luteinizing hormone) production while inhibiting the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone), leading to an indirect increase in progesterone and a normalization of prolactin levels.

effects of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1) on prolactin secretion in healthy male subjects.
Merz PG1, Gorkow C, Schrödter A, Rietbrock S, Sieder C, Loew D, Dericks-Tan JS, Taubert HD.
Author information


Abstract
The effects of three doses of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1)--extracts from 120 mg, 240 mg and 480 mg of drug per day--were examined within the framework of a placebo-controlled clinical study of tolerance and prolactin secretion in 20 healthy male subjects during a period of 14 days. There was good tolerance during the study as regards the following: adverse effects, the effects on blood pressure and heart rate, blood count, Quick's test, clinical chemistry as well as testosterone, FSH and LH values. During each study phase the 24-hour prolactin secretion profile was measured from the penultimate to the final day, and the amount of prolactin release was monitored an hour after TRH stimulation on the last day. A significant increase in the 24-hour profile was registered with the lowest dose in comparison to placebo, the opposite being the case with the higher doses, i.e. a slight reduction. In contrast to the administration of placebo, the 1-hour AUC after TRH stimulation resulted in a significant increase with the lowest dose and a significant reduction with the highest dose. The results suggest effects of the special Agnus castus extract which are dependent on the dose administered and the initial level of prolactin concentration

* In this study below 20 patients out of 43 patients reported 37 adverse events (AE) on 20 mg dose
Efficacy of Vitex agnus castus L. extract Ze 440 in patients with pre-menstrual syndrome (PMS).
In conclusion, patients with PMS can be treated successfully with Vitex agnus-castus extract Ze 440, as indicated by clear improvement in the main effect parameter during treatment and the gradual return after cessation of treatment. The main response to treatment seems related to symptomatic relief rather than to the duration of the syndrome.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11129515

__________________________________


40mg dose was well tolerated in this study of 207 participants that decreased from 26.17+/-4.79 to 9.92+/-9.01 for the treatment group:

This resouce (the best I've seen on VITEX) has 13 separate trail analysis: Big Grin

Vitex agnus-castus Extracts for Female Reproductive Disorders: A Systematic Review of Clinical Trials
https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/...32-1327831


Finally:

At low dose (120mg per day) of chasteberry (vitex), prolactin production is stimulated, while at higher dose (240-480mg per day) prolactin production is decreased.
http://www.diagnose-me.com/treatment/vit...berry.html

So.... Bottom line, it looks as little as 20mg could work, though 40mg to 120mg makes better sense.

Hi Lotus

Thankyou for that in depth data on Vitex! My understanding is that women use it to help regulate their menstrual cycle and help with regular periods. It's supposed to raise progesterone levels to balance out against a high estrogen level.

I read the thing about monks using it to lower their libido for concentration purposes, which didn't make sense to me at all. From my understanding, progesterone can raise your libido levels. It's also in my understanding that progesterone can interfere with new estrogen coming into the body. Which is why it's used later in NBE programs.

If you are referring to my NBE goal, I'm hopeful of the affects and claims BO holds to its name. I'm quite patient, starting to lose some of that as I get older and develop more impatience towards my transition progress.

It seems to be doing something atleast, Ive been taking BO for 1 month and 1 week now. I know it takes time, I'm just so eager to see results. I'm hoping to atleast get to a B minimum...would love to get bigger than that and I welcome that growth. I'm also hopeful for its overall feminine body changes.

So in relation to Vitex been used with BO, if Vitex raises progesterone levels, it probably wouldn't be good with BO would it? I mean if it interferes with new estrogen been made in the body? Maybe it's something to take later in the program or not at all.

At the moment I'm trying to just stick with BO and kelp. I'm eating really healthy, drinking lots of green tea (i read your post about that Lotus! And I'm a big tea drinker) alright enough waffling on as they say in Australia, I hope that was enough info to elicit a good response!  Tongue" alt="Tongue" title="Tongue">

P.S. - We all get busy, thankyou for finding time to come back here and continue sharing your knowledge about these subjects!


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