[Lotus]

Lotus, I would be definitely interested in hearing details and tweaks how to maximalize NBE results! Although I am not able to tell if I will follow them. (Ehm, any enhancing of the growth may be ... problematic. )

Poly

No problem, I completely understand.

Lotus - you continue to blossom and inspire.

I, for one, would LOVE to hear your thoughts on a sequence to maximize NBE and HRT!

Thanks Marcy for the supportive comments, I hope it will help people with their NBE growth.

Beautiful Lotus! Maybe someday I'll get there.

What's up BigD (how've u been?). It'll happen, maybe sooner than you think,

WOW!!!

great update Lotus!!

Your Areolas look like they are still puffed up similar to Tanner scale 4! Still developing?

take care! hugs!

~H

Thanks DD, it's weird how they'll go from a Tanner 5 back to a Tanner 4. You're right though, when that happens (puffed) I know it signals growth phases.

Lotus:

Magnificent!

have you noticed backaches/other issues as being off balanced or such?

I have heard, as your size goes up, the potential for back aches and being off balanced can increase .. how do you fare?

Thanks Tanya. The posture has definitely changed to accommodate the growth, so.......you're right, new back pain showed up (on top of the old pain if that makes sense).

These are firm tetta's.. youre such a pro at this..wish i could grow them your size!!

Aw thanks Hannah, I think it's possible if you find out what works for you.

Question when did you dress as a woman, and grow a natural long head of hair, compared to just cross dressing, how did you come to the decision?

Dress like a woman?- a couple of times maybe, though I wear a sports bra half the day if that counts for anything. It's been a few years since having long hair, (above the shoulders currently). How did I come to this decision?, the decision came later in my life, I'm more gender neutral if anything at present.

I am monitoring this thread.

Not that that's anything new.

Thanks froger, thanks for sticking around, I appreciate your feedback. I think I'll have the info wrapped up by tomorrow.

[BigDee]

What's up BigD (how've u been?). It'll happen, maybe sooner than you think,

I've been around, checking in every now and then. I've also been on a very extended break from NBE. The good news is, even though I've been a on a break, I haven't lost anything I'd gained.

I've even taken off about 30 pounds during this time.

[missboobshirt]

wow. beautiful, lotus <3

[Lotus]

Multiple study's point out that certain hormones need to be present (at the same time) to induce breast growth. My conclusion (based on research studies and my own personal results) listed below discusses the missing parts of NBE/HRT. (Choose 1 from each, except EGF (epidermal growth factor) is 2 from that group.


GH-growth hormone

-HOPS (8-PIN) stimulates IGF-1,........growth hormone stimulates IGF-1 (insulin growth factor). This action stimulates new growth. Exercise & sleep, whey (denatured), cayenne pepper stimulates IGF-1 and circulation (inhibits androgens in the prostate). Vitamin D stimulates IGF-1

PRL-prolactin

-hops, milk thistle, nipple stimulation


PR-progesterone & progestrone receptor

-red clover and a structurally similar flavonoid, apigenin, bound to PR and induced progestegenic activity and P4 regulated genes in breast epithelial cells and human endometrial stromal cells (HESC). Kaempferol and apigenin demonstrated higher progestegenic potency in the HESC compared to breast epithelial cells

E2-estradiol-

fenugreek, Hops (binds to breast receptor A), authentic PM. adipose tissue (fat) contributes up to 100% of circulating estrogen in postmenopausal women. I see older genetic males somewhere close to postmenopausal women, BMI being a factor.

EGF- epidermal growth factor-

linoleic acid (18:2 omega 6) and prostaglandin E2 or cAMP has synergistic effect on EGF-stimulated growth (stimulates mammary epithelial cells).

My choice is EPO (evening primrose oil- plus krill oil)....though peanut oil and borage oil could work too. I'll do EPO 2x daily, 1 krill oil per day, then peanuts (high in biotin) with EPO later.

Anti-Androgens and aromatase are still needed, but I see these added at specific times. Meaning taking anti-androgens and aromatase together, then followed by E2/phytoestrogens.

(However, EGF stimulates aromatase..........and EPO inhibits DHT and promotes aromatase). In other words, it's mainly that omega 6's and PGE2 targets these actions.

As we know anti-androgens inhibit 5 alpha reductase, then aromatase converts it to estrogens.

____________________________


Personally, I've added some items to my HRT program to address the multiple hormone approach and have seen a 1/2 growth in the past 3 weeks, 2 inches total since May. Granted, my situation is different from others, I'm not saying you'll see similar results, but it's encouraging based on doing this for the past 4 years. The items I've added are supplements.

E2 4mg x2 daily
Spiro 100mg x2 daily

EPO (evening primrose oil) 1000mg x2 daily
Krill oil 500mg x1 daily
Gelatin 1300mg x2 daily
Vitamin C 500 mg 1x daily
Biotin 5000mcg x2 daily
Magnesium 250mg X1 daily
Calcium 600mg x2 daily
Water 8+ cups daily (w/lemon wedge)
Green Tea 3 cups

I've covered enough of the science in past posts which highlights this info, feel free to read. One other thing I've found very helpful is a tube bra.....lol true. I think it helps move (or keep) breast fat moving forward. The ability to reposition it right below the underarms moves that annoying extra spillage you see overflowing from bras. There's one size fits all or larger ones available, the bands do get uncomfortable after awhile, shop around though. The flush of breast fats/blood moving forward also increases areola sensitivity.


Other moving parts to all this obviously still needs addressing, (exercise/sleep are two such examples that need further mention). A quick note though is coordinating exercise via the release of hormones and supplement timing, (imo, exercise within 1 hour) whether that's 20 squats, walking, HIIT (high intensity interval training), breast isometrics is up to you.

[Lotus]

wow. beautiful, lotus <3

Thank missB, it's always nice to hear your feedback.

[Lotus]

I was asked info on Vitex, here's some past and present, I hope it helps, apologies parts are complex.

Vitex works through the HPA (hypothalamus-pituitary axis). It (vitex) increases LH (luteinizing hormone) production while inhibiting the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone), leading to an indirect increase in progesterone and a normalization of prolactin levels.

effects of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1) on prolactin secretion in healthy male subjects.
Merz PG1, Gorkow C, Schrödter A, Rietbrock S, Sieder C, Loew D, Dericks-Tan JS, Taubert HD.
Author information


Abstract
The effects of three doses of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1)--extracts from 120 mg, 240 mg and 480 mg of drug per day--were examined within the framework of a placebo-controlled clinical study of tolerance and prolactin secretion in 20 healthy male subjects during a period of 14 days. There was good tolerance during the study as regards the following: adverse effects, the effects on blood pressure and heart rate, blood count, Quick's test, clinical chemistry as well as testosterone, FSH and LH values. During each study phase the 24-hour prolactin secretion profile was measured from the penultimate to the final day, and the amount of prolactin release was monitored an hour after TRH stimulation on the last day. A significant increase in the 24-hour profile was registered with the lowest dose in comparison to placebo, the opposite being the case with the higher doses, i.e. a slight reduction. In contrast to the administration of placebo, the 1-hour AUC after TRH stimulation resulted in a significant increase with the lowest dose and a significant reduction with the highest dose. The results suggest effects of the special Agnus castus extract which are dependent on the dose administered and the initial level of prolactin concentration

.

In this study 20 patients out of 43 patients reported 37 adverse events (AE) on 20 mg dose

Efficacy of Vitex agnus castus L. extract Ze 440 in patients with pre-menstrual syndrome (PMS).
In conclusion, patients with PMS can be treated successfully with Vitex agnus-castus extract Ze 440, as indicated by clear improvement in the main effect parameter during treatment and the gradual return after cessation of treatment. The main response to treatment seems related to symptomatic relief rather than to the duration of the syndrome.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11129515

__________________________________


40mg dose was well tolerated in this study of 207 participants that decreased from 26.17+/-4.79 to 9.92+/-9.01 for the treatment group:


treatment for premenstrual syndrome with Vitex agnus castus: A prospective, randomized, multi-center placebo controlled study in China.
CONCLUSION:
Vitex agnus castus (VAC BNO 1095 corresponding to 40mg herbal drug) is a safe, well tolerated and effective drug of the treatment for Chinese women with the moderate to severe PMS.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?filters=&orig_db=PubMed&cmd=Search&term=63%2A%5Bvolume%5D%20AND%2099%5Bpage%5D%20AND%202009%5Bpdat%5D%20AND%20He%20Z%5Bauth%5D


This resouce (the best I've seen on VITEX) has 13 separate trail analysis:

Vitex agnus-castus Extracts for Female Reproductive Disorders: A Systematic Review of Clinical Trials
https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/...32-1327831


Finally:

At low dose (120mg per day) of chasteberry, prolactin production is stimulated, while at higher dose (240-480mg per day) prolactin production is decreased.
http://www.diagnose-me.com/treatment/vit...berry.html

So.... Bottom line, it looks as little as 20mg could work, though 40mg to 120mg makes better sense.

[Billie]

I had long hair for 10 years and cut it to fit in a corporate environment but I want to grow it back.  I sound pretty fem on the phone and feel more fem and I don't want to feel strange like now.  I want to feel like myself.  So neutral is a great concept.

[Lotus]

I had long hair for 10 years and cut it to fit in a corporate environment but I want to grow it back. I sound pretty fem on the phone and feel more fem and I don't want to feel strange like now. I want to feel like myself. So neutral is a great concept.

Thanks,

When I had long hair I despised the up-keep lol, . However, my reason for cutting it was for me mum to see it short again in her final passing moments of her life..... It brought a smile to her face, then, she was gone a few hours later, I don't regret it one bit.

[Lotus]

Want to know how steroids work in the body to create the basis for breast growth?, check the link and read and re-read as many times as it takes............the answers are there (hint: think vitamin D3, transport carriers, second messengers for rapid signaling [cascade] just to name a few).


Synthesis of Steroid Hormones
http://web.calstatela.edu/faculty/mchen/...roids4.ppt





   

[Lotus]

Rapid behavioural effects of oestrogens and fast regulation of their local synthesis by brain aromatase.
Cornil CA1, Charlier TD.
Author information
Abstract
Besides their genomic effects, oestrogens, 17beta-oestradiol in particular, also activate cellular effects that may be too rapid (seconds to minutes) to result from de novo protein synthesis. Although the existence of such nongenomic actions has been extensively demonstrated in vitro, the understanding of their behavioural significance is only emerging. Recent findings provide evidence that acute oestrogen treatments significantly affect a variety of behavioural processes, including sexual behaviour, social communication and cognition. One question arising from these results concerns the source of the oestrogens mediating nongenomic effects in vivo. In this review, data collected in vitro and in vivo are presented supporting the notion that fast modulations of local testosterone aromatisation can rapidly control the local oestrogen concentration in a time frame compatible with their rapid actions. Taken together, these data provide compelling evidence of how rapid changes in the local production and action of oestrogens can shape complex behaviours.