Anti-Androgens - Printable Version

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RE: Anti-Androgens - Naomiko - 03-01-2015

Thank you so much for the amazon link and information. The brand you use didn't show up in my searches for some reason. You just saved me a lot of shipping expenses lol

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RE: Anti-Androgens - Outsider - 03-01-2015

(03-01-2015, 02:34 AM)Lotus Wrote:  Hi L.A,

If you can't find WP, there are alternative's in the meantime. Genistien which is found in quite a few phytoestrogens is one source of an Aromatase converting Herb. I believe a newer technique holds promise and that's using Fatty Acids, and yes you'll find them in unsaturated fats, GLA's (borage oil, EPO). Here's some more, vitamin C also helps in making oral estrogens more effective. The genistien can be found in higher concentrations with the supplement Soy Isoflavone. Ethanol is another source of aromatase, which will be found in some extracts, tequilas, but I ruled that out for oblivious reasons.


In extracts 1:1 ratio is ideal, otherwise it's a less potent content and not worth the expense.

This is what I've used. You could also try local health food shops if available.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Peony-Root-Extract-4oz/dp/B000OAXVK2/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1420247589&sr=1-1&keywords=White+Peony+extract

A few days ago I ordered 3 4oz bottles of the ISH liquid WP extract you linked to. I'm glad I randomly picked the Lotus approved brand.

I've never used a liquid extract before, but how many drops should I be taking and about how long does a bottle last?

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RE: Anti-Androgens - Lotus - 03-01-2015

(03-01-2015, 03:54 AM)Outsider Wrote:  

(03-01-2015, 02:34 AM)Lotus Wrote:  Hi L.A,

If you can't find WP, there are alternative's in the meantime. Genistien which is found in quite a few phytoestrogens is one source of an Aromatase converting Herb. I believe a newer technique holds promise and that's using Fatty Acids, and yes you'll find them in unsaturated fats, GLA's (borage oil, EPO). Here's some more, vitamin C also helps in making oral estrogens more effective. The genistien can be found in higher concentrations with the supplement Soy Isoflavone. Ethanol is another source of aromatase, which will be found in some extracts, tequilas, but I ruled that out for oblivious reasons.


In extracts 1:1 ratio is ideal, otherwise it's a less potent content and not worth the expense.

This is what I've used. You could also try local health food shops if available.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Peony-Root-Extract-4oz/dp/B000OAXVK2/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1420247589&sr=1-1&keywords=White+Peony+extract

A few days ago I ordered 3 4oz bottles of the ISH liquid WP extract you linked to. I'm glad I randomly picked the Lotus approved brand.

I've never used a liquid extract before, but how many drops should I be taking and about how long does a bottle last?

It's cool and thanks, I'm sure others exist, spanky actually discovered the brand. 27% ethanol so watch out.

(02-11-2012, 03:36 AM)BubbleBra Wrote:  The unique composition of human breast milk fat includes the fatty acids, lauric acid and capric acid, which have potent antimicrobial properties. These fatty acids offer the nursing infant protection from viruses such as herpes and HIV, protozoa such as giardia lamblia, and bacteria such as chlamydia and heliocobater.

Any lauric acid and capric acid in the diet becomes part of the adipose stores.

So taking along with a prolactin inducing herb such as Alfalfa/Fenugreek, coconut when taken internally will increase lauric acid reserves which then become apart of the fat tissues in the breasts which enlarges them... so adding coconut oil would be helpful, no telling by how much though

I dunno, i got an additional growth of an inch in 1 1/2 months. but I also increased healthy fats in general, also daily fruits intake via nutri-ninja style lol, EPO, vitamin C, water etc.

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RE: Anti-Androgens - Lotus - 03-01-2015

(03-01-2015, 03:54 AM)Outsider Wrote:  I've never used a liquid extract before, but how many drops should I be taking and about how long does a bottle last?

2-3x daily @ 1 dropper ea. is ok, beyond that is wasteful imo. You could stretch it for a month, I still have the bottle I purchased months ago, that's just me though, I get lazy and forget to take it lol.

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RE: Anti-Androgens - spanky - 03-01-2015

I went for a while with no PM, but taking:

WP extract - 2x - 2 droppers
Reishi complex capsules (standardized) - 2x 1 cap
Then added dandelion root capsules - 2x - 1 cap

Within a couple of weeks, I was quite pleased at how sell that seemed to be working. Firmer, fuller, solidifying buds, nipple development, very pleasant sensations. I believe there was noticeable growth but have never been good about measurement.

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RE: Anti-Androgens - Outsider - 03-01-2015

(03-01-2015, 05:18 AM)Lotus Wrote:  

(03-01-2015, 03:54 AM)Outsider Wrote:  I've never used a liquid extract before, but how many drops should I be taking and about how long does a bottle last?

2-3x daily @ 1 dropper ea. is ok, beyond that is wasteful imo. You could stretch it for a month, I still have the bottle I purchased months ago, that's just me though, I get lazy and forget to take it lol.

Thank you Lotus

Now the WP just needs hurry up and get to me.

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RE: Anti-Androgens - twinklepose - 03-01-2015

Hi all, been taking SP as my AA with no growth at all yet. What's better to switch to, white peony or reishi? And can anyone recommend any good brands and the best doses? Thanks! x

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RE: Anti-Androgens - pom19 - 03-01-2015

(03-01-2015, 07:16 PM)twinklepose Wrote:  Hi all, been taking SP as my AA with no growth at all yet. What's better to switch to, white peony or reishi? And can anyone recommend any good brands and the best doses? Thanks! x

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I hope this helps you:

http://www.ehow.com/list_7362128_chinese-herbs-anti_androgenic-effects.html

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RE: Anti-Androgens - Lotus - 03-01-2015

Thanks POM for the link (better than I could do lol), and thanks spanky for the info (I like the approach) great question twinkle, and thank you outsider.

I have to get back to this subject, and the direction I was going in was the significance of aromatase in the quote below. The illustration provided below is complex, but it lays out the aspect of what I mean.

Quote:This review article discusses a novel nontraditional site of estrogen synthesis and the potential targets of estrogen action within the male reproductive system. Our laboratories have recently demonstrated that developing spermatids in several species contain aromatase, the cytochrome P450 enzyme responsible for converting androgens into estrogens.

(29-12-2014, 08:16 PM)Lotus Wrote:  

(29-12-2014, 07:59 PM)elainecd Wrote:  Lotus, does that say what I think it says??...

Lol yes, although it's a bit more involved then what it implies.

Quote:This review article discusses a novel nontraditional site of estrogen synthesis and the potential targets of estrogen action within the male reproductive system. Our laboratories have recently demonstrated that developing spermatids in several species contain aromatase, the cytochrome P450 enzyme responsible for converting androgens into estrogens.

(29-12-2014, 07:15 PM)Lotus Wrote:  So what if there was way to influence an estrogen action in the Leydig cells since they already include estrogen receptors. Well, a pathway needs to be established. Here is one possible source, or could be a possible action.

Sperm, a source of estrogen
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1518866/
Environ Health Perspect. Oct 1995; 103(Suppl 7): 59–62.
PMCID: PMC1518866
Research Article
Sperm, a source of estrogen.

Other info: it's being researched already.

Estrogen signaling in testicular cells.

Aromatase transforms irreversibly androgens into estrogens and is present in the endoplasmic reticulum of various tissues including the mammalian testis. In rat all testicular cells except peritubular cells express aromatase. Indeed in adult rat germ cells (pachytene spermatocytes and round spermatids) we have demonstrated the presence of a functional aromatase (transcript, protein and biological activity) and the estrogen output is equivalent to that of Leydig cells. In addition in the adult rat, transcripts of aromatase vary according to the germ cell type and to the stages of seminiferous epithelium. By contrast with the androgen receptors mainly localized in somatic cells, estrogen receptors (ERs) are described in most of the testicular cells including germ cells. Moreover, besides the presence of high affinity ERα and/or ERβ, a rapid membrane effect has been recently reported and we demonstrated that GPR30 (a transmembrane intracellular estrogen receptor) is expressed in adult rat pachytene spermatocytes. Therefore estrogens through both GPR30 and ERα are able to activate the rapid EGFR/ERK/c-jun signaling cascade, which in turn triggers an apoptotic mitochondrial pathway involving an increase in Bax expression and a concomitant reduction of cyclin A1 and B1 gene levels. In another study in round spermatids of adult rat we have shown that the rapid membrane effect of estradiol is also efficient in controlling apoptosis and maturation / differentiation of these haploid germ cells. In man the presence of a biologically active aromatase and of estrogen receptors has been reported in Leydig cells, but also in immature germ cells and ejaculated spermatozoa. Thus the role of estrogen (intracrine, autocrine and / or paracrine) in spermatogenesis (proliferation, apoptosis, survival and maturation) and more generally, in male reproduction is now evidenced taking into account the simultaneous presence of a biologically active aromatase and the widespread distribution of estrogen receptors especially in haploid germ cells.

(29-12-2014, 08:35 PM)Lotus Wrote:  

(29-12-2014, 08:29 PM)elainecd Wrote:  oK then I just have to ask...
Would men's sperm be a significant source of aromatase?

I think so, the study concluded that Leydig cells, germ cells, and seminiferous tubules all showed positive stains for aromatase. But it has to do more with the head (tip) of sperm.

I take that back, it's the tail that has the most aromatase and the head of the epididymis displays estrogen receptors where estrogen synthesis occurs.

Summary diagram of potential estrogen action in epithelia of efferent ductules and the epididymis. At least 4 potential pathways are considered. 1) testosterone (T) can enter the cell or be converted to E2 by aromatase (Arom) found in luminal sperm [54]. Testosterone binds AR and translocates into the nucleus, where it binds to AREs, on the promoter regions of genes with or without EREs. 2) E2 will either enter the cell, as did testosterone or bind the membrane ESR (mESR1). It remains controversial whether E2 binds GPR30 in the membrane [144] or collaborates with mESR1 to mediate epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) activation (nonclassical) of kinases and phosphorylation [180]. It is well known that E2 binds ESR1 and translocates into the nucleus for classical mediation of transcription through EREs and recruitment of numerous cofactor proteins (C1–3). It is unknown how AR and ESR1 compete for these cofactors, or what happens when the steroid balance is altered in a cell expressing both receptors. 3) The ESR1 can also be activated through phosphorylation and mediate transcription through the ERE. 4) It is well documented in other tissues that mESR1 binds E2, resulting in very rapid cell signaling [84, 175, 178]. This rapid steroid activity through the membrane receptor involves caveolin-1, G proteins, and the phosphorylation/dephosphorylation cascades, which mediate transcription either through the ESR1/ERE or other transcription factors (TF).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3071263/


I think we made an important step in solving the Estrogen action in Genetic Males and NBE.

Or a 67 yard field goal.

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RE: Anti-Androgens - Naomiko - 03-01-2015

I had a quick question about Maca Root, I had asked a herbalist and she asked whether I wanted black, red/purple, or a mix? I presume red/purple because it apparently contains female hormones? Or is there a particular brand/extract that would be best?

On FAQs, it only describes "Maca" but makes no specification.

I think I have a cocktail regime put together, but won't get into it here as to avoid going too far off topic.

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