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Conflicting Thoughts

#1

Hello ladies,

I am fairly new to this forum, about a week or two, and already learned so much on how to achieve the dream I always have had: having a feminine body.
Being a fresh-out-of-college, working-like-a-slave, 24-year-old, I haven't started any programs yet, but am dying to start tinkling with the herbs, especially, Pueraria Mirifica.
I am so jealous of many ladies proudly presenting their marvelous achievements on this forum! Tongue

Well, however, there is one thing that concerns me in the way of becoming more feminine.
Even though I really do want to be more feminine in body shape, style, skin texture, etc., I find myself also being reluctant to give up my male side.
In fact, I honestly cannot imagine letting myself lose my functionality as a male. (You know, the thing tangling down there?)

This is why I am actually considering topical solutions, such as cream or lotion.
I heard that trans-dermal methods are less effective compare to actual intake of the herbs or pills.
However, I also heard that it also can limit the effect of the hormone - again with limits - to the topical areas that the cream is applied; therefore, my penis can be saved from - not totally, but within the acceptable range - the effect of estrogen.

On the ineffectiveness of trans-dermal method vs oral intake note, I found that chemical called MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane) may be used to aid more effective absorption of hormone via skin.
So... the final conclusion that I draw from all above is making my own blend of breast enlargement cream with Pueraria Mirifica (Active ingredient; female hormone), Saw Palmetto (Active ingredient; male hormone blocker), MSM (Carrier; helping absorption of the active ingredients), Base Lotion/Cream (heard that Cetaphil and Eucerin are very decent base cream, since both of them are dermatologist recommended, fragrance free, gentle), oats (helps the absorption of the active ingredients and provide nutrients that aid the growth of breasts), and Clary Sage Essence Oil (Also great source of phytoestrogen...so I heard, and smells good)

How much of each ingredient am I going to put? How am I going to extract the actual nutrients from the active ingredients? More importantly, is this going to work? The only answer I have for these questions is "I don't know!"
But I would love to find out (hopefully, that it works).

Within few months I will have more free time to actually try out this theory or "program" of my own, but if any of you who share the same concerns/conflict with me of wanting to be feminine and risk male functionality, I guess you may give it a try. If there are any who are already trying trans-dermal approach, please let me know how it is going.

Also, if any of you reading this have any back ground in medicine, chemistry, pharmacy, biology, etc., please feel free to drop a line or two to correct me, if there is anything wrong. And a word of advice in extracting active nutrition from the herbs, especially hormone, that can be done in regular household, and improving the absorption rate of the ingredients via skin will be very appreciated. (If it is not possible, feel free to enlighten me and say, NO!)
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#2

(25-04-2011, 07:33 AM)janusgate Wrote:  Well, however, there is one thing that concerns me in the way of becoming more feminine.
Even though I really do want to be more feminine in body shape, style, skin texture, etc., I find myself also being reluctant to give up my male side.
In fact, I honestly cannot imagine letting myself lose my functionality as a male. (You know, the thing tangling down there?)

OK, I'm not a chemist or a doctor or anything like that, but I've been on PM a while now and I've done a lot of reading and here is what I have experienced and what I have found out from reading.

First - personal experience. Use of PM has not disabled 'down below' but it has changed patterns of arousal. I get hard less often and it takes me longer to get it up, but once up it performs normally. I now need prolonged foreplay (much as a genetic woman does) but other than that everything else is working OK. I have less 'morning glories' than previously and any urges to 'fiddle' down there are greatly reduced.

Second - reading. I have looked up the effect of oestrogen on MTF transexuals and also of castration (chemical and actual) as these are both more severe than what I am doing. The evidence seems overwhelming - the only thing the testicles do is produce sperm and testosterone. Arousal is a different mechanism and even eunnuchs can 'get it up'.

Given that you are young man, you might want to bank sperm. Becoming sterile may be more of a danger for you than impotence

(25-04-2011, 07:33 AM)janusgate Wrote:  How much of each ingredient am I going to put? How am I going to extract the actual nutrients from the active ingredients? More importantly, is this going to work? The only answer I have for these questions is "I don't know!"
But I would love to find out (hopefully, that it works).

I'm taking PM as a capsule 2x500mg twice a day. I also take 2 saw palmetto twice a day as well and after a few months I'm getting to the stage where a bra will soon be necessary even though I'm only around an A cup.

Beverley
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#3

[as an opening note: I am not a doctor, chemist, or biologist; but I have done a greatly deal of research into this topic, and I greatly share your concerns janusgate.]

first an foremost: individual results will very based on personal biochemistry (in all reality that is what this is all about [in terms of the growth itself] is how this chemical compound(s) effects the biological workings/makeup of the person)

topical methods:
this approach has the least effects on other parts of the anatomy, and neural chemistry, but is also the least effective, as the best results with this approach is at most an increase of 1 maybe 2(in rare cases) cup sizes (or an increase of at most 2 inches of circumference), when used on its own, in biological females, and some males after 2 years of use.

Most males report having full penile functionality, while still attaining growth, that in most cases needs intermittent to continual maintenance.

herbal methods:
this method of the three is in the middle of effectiveness. In general: causes redistribution of fat, and musculature while causing moderate neural-chemical changes, and breast growth, and in rare cases even lactation. The majority of results are 1 to as much as 4 cup size increase (or an increase of at most 4 inches of circumference), when used on its own, in biological females, and most males after 2 years of use.

Most males report having the majority of their original penile functionality, while still attaining growth, that in most cases needs only intermittent maintenance.

Purer methods:
[this includes but is not limited to: synthetic estrogen, pueriaria-mirifica, Bountiful Breasts/Transfem, and also other synthetic/derived estrogen compounds.]
this method of the three is the most effective most people report having redistribution of fat, and musculature while a causing, sometimes drastic, changes is neural-chemical changes, and growth, and in rare cases even lactation. The majority of results range from 1 to 6 cup size increase (or an increase of at most 6 inches of circumference) when used on its own, in biological females, and most males after 2 years of use.

Most males report having nearly a complete, in most cases permanent, loss of penile functionality, and size, as well as changes in neural-chemistry(after 3 to 6 months), while still attaining growth, that in most cases needs nearly continual maintenance.
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#4

Thank you for the inputs. :]

Ms. Beverly Rose>
I did not know that testicles are not so related to the erection. I have assumed that inability to get erection would give me the first alert, if my fertility is at risk due to too much estrogen in my system. Well, I know I wouldn't make such mistake. Tongue

Anyways, when I mentioned "male functionality", both of fertility as well as ability to achieve erection are included. And, yeah, the sperm bank sounds very reliable option to take, especially, when I am planning to play with my hormone balance. Also, this is why I am planning to take a topical application of hormone (from PM) instead of swallowing pills.

2,000mg of PM (2 x 500mg, twice a day) with SP seem like pretty heavy dose for me. Especially, manufacturers' guideline that I picked up from someplace advise to have 1,000mg for a transsexual person along with other SP and FG. Besides your breast growth, which is very remarkable - hence, making me jealous! LOL -, what other feminine changes have you obtained? (Is your skin much smoother? Is there signs of fat redistribution, such as higher waist, larger hip and thigh, reduction in waist, etc.? Is there reduction of muscle?) How much of your fertility affected from the herbs?

Ms. Emily Angelina>
Thanks for the neatly organized comparisons. I know topical methods is the least effective compared to other methods, but I am expecting better effectiveness with MSM, since this material is know for its ability to transfer into skin.

As I mentioned, jeopardizing my male functionality is not really an option for me, so the purer method is out of discussion for me, and even more aggressive herbal methods are opted for the same reason. One think interesting I noticed from comparison is that you (or your source) categorized PM as one of the purer methods. Is there particular reason for this? Is PM that strong? (Strong enough to equate with synthetic estrogen in effectiveness)
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#5

(29-04-2011, 12:28 PM)janusgate Wrote:  Thank you for the inputs. :]

Ms. Beverly Rose>
I did not know that testicles are not so related to the erection. I have assumed that inability to get erection would give me the first alert, if my fertility is at risk due to too much estrogen in my system. Well, I know I wouldn't make such mistake. Tongue

Erections are about arousal and that happens in your head. Most erectile dysfunction is either psychological or caused by low blood pressure. Hormones CAN play a part but they are not the only factor.


(29-04-2011, 12:28 PM)janusgate Wrote:  .... what other feminine changes have you obtained? (Is your skin much smoother? Is there signs of fat redistribution, such as higher waist, larger hip and thigh, reduction in waist, etc.? Is there reduction of muscle?)

I haven't noticed any definite change in skin texture, something I can point out without question, but my waist is narrowing and moving up. The narrowing could be due to the fact that I have lost about 1 stone in weight, but the waistline is higher than previously. I don't seem to be noticeably less muscular, but I was never Arnold Schwarznegger's body double....


(29-04-2011, 12:28 PM)janusgate Wrote:  How much of your fertility affected from the herbs?

I've no idea. I have kids already and I don't want any more so if I'm now sterile then it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Beverley
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#6

(29-04-2011, 12:28 PM)janusgate Wrote:  2,000mg of PM (2 x 500mg, twice a day) with SP seem like pretty heavy dose for me. Especially, manufacturers' guideline that I picked up from someplace advise to have 1,000mg for a transsexual person along with other SP and FG. Besides your breast growth, which is very remarkable - hence, making me jealous! LOL -, what other feminine changes have you obtained? (Is your skin much smoother? Is there signs of fat redistribution, such as higher waist, larger hip and thigh, reduction in waist, etc.? Is there reduction of muscle?) How much of your fertility affected from the herbs?

Ms. Emily Angelina>
Thanks for the neatly organized comparisons. I know topical methods is the least effective compared to other methods, but I am expecting better effectiveness with MSM, since this material is know for its ability to transfer into skin.

Hi,

FWIW, I've been taking 2x500mg PM, plus 2x450mg SP, twice a day for about 7 months with no problems and a slight but noticeable increase in boob size. The figures quoted on labels are, I believe, largely aimed at women who are seeking to boost what nature has provided, rather than starting from nothing. It is widely said that males need to double the quoted intake figures.

As for other changes, I think I am beginning to see a slight fat redistribution although it is too early to be sure - certainly if 'waist' is defined as the narrowest part of the torso, that does seem to have recently shifted upwards slightly, I noticed that just a couple of days ago. I have also definitely noticed that the hair on my legs has got less dense and grows much more slowly now. I've been having laser treatment on my face and upper body so I can't objectively comment on the herb effect on those areas.

I have no experience of topical creams, but if you want to go that route it does seem to me that your proposed DIY cream is a complicated and unquantifiable way of doing so. Why not simply buy one of the PM creams or sprays which are commercially available anyway?
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#7

(29-04-2011, 12:28 PM)janusgate Wrote:  Ms. Emily Angelina>
One think interesting I noticed from comparison is that you (or your source) categorized PM as one of the purer methods. Is there particular reason for this? Is PM that strong? (Strong enough to equate with synthetic estrogen in effectiveness)

actually I know I remember seeing posts by several of the "males" on this forum section making statements such as (please keep in mind that I have been looking now for about an hour and can not find these exact posts, and if I have miss read/remembered then I apologize):
'after about 3 months of PM, at 2000mg [double the suggested female dose, so that it is effective for males] I have noticed decreased sex drive, and loss of erections. along with changes in mood pattern, and fat distributions.'
this is quite similar to the statements made as "claims" by Trans femme (same product as Bountiful Breasts) http://www.transfemme.com/faqs questions 22-27 though they say that these effects are found after 6 months this is probably to be more realistic in their marketing.
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#8

Search for posts by sfem, chrissiegirl or myself, among others. Personally, I think emilyangelina is somewhat incorrect in her analysis. Based on all the research I have done, I don't think PM is what she calls one of the purer methods, roughly equivalent to BO and using synthetic hormones.

I have been taking PM for a little over a year. For much of that time I have been taking in the neighborhood of 1500 to 2000 mg/day, sometimes taking 3000 mg/day for a week or so, then back to lower levels. I have achieved an 'A' cup (37.5" under, 42.5" bust, 40" over) and can no longer wear tshirts or light weight dress shirts without some sort of compression garment to hide my breasts. I have needed to stop taking PM at least three times in the past year, for up 4 or 5 weeks at a time, and all the effects I note below slowly diminished the longer I was off PM. For me at least, the effects seem to be reversible when I stop taking PM, and thus are not permanent as they are with hormones, BB and transfem.

The effects on "male function" I have noticed in myself pretty much amount to decreased libido (for me a very good thing) and a lack of morning erections and pretty much all spontaneous erections. I can still masturbate just fine: get erect, have a 'normal' orgasm and all that. The volume of ejaculate could be slightly less than it used to be, but that could be age too (am 54 now.) It's just that the old obsession with sex and especially online porn is no longer there. It might even take a little more "work" to get that orgasm but I don't see that as a bad thing either. That to me is part of the emotional shift that PM has given me, and I am grateful for it.

Other physical changes include some minor fat redistribution so that male jeans and female jeans now fit very differently than they did before I started PM. I am physically active and work out and do yoga, so I have not noticed a significant drop in strength at this point. Fertility does not concern me for reasons of age, I already have kids and I had a vasectomy years ago so I'm sterile anyway. If you are messing with your hormone levels on a long term basis, I think you have to assume fertility may be affected adversely. Then again, it may not; no one knows for sure and unfortunately, your mileage may vary.

Hope that clears up some confusion and misinformation.
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#9

I'd like to say that most of what chrishoney posted is about the same for me with some small changes. I have been on PM for 8-9 months now. I did other herbs before that for about a year. My normal dose when trying to grow is 1000mg/day. I found that 500mg/day maintains what I have. Over a month or so that I stopped taking it, I lost some of what I had grown (about 1"). I got that back in about the same period of time after going back on 1000mg/day.

I'd say my comments about male function are almost identical to chrishoney's. I have nothing to add to that, chrishoney already said it all very well.

I am a few years junior to chrishoney, just coming up on the 50-year mark this year. I just went and measured for a current size to give. I am 39" under, 41" over, and 43.5" bust. That is without a bra or anything else to add projection or gather or whatever. I fit very comfortably and completely in a number of 38b bras. I also have 38a's that are too small (in the cup) and 38a's that are too big (in the cup). I have one 38c demi that actually fits ok, although I have very little above the cup. I believe my profile has changed. Although I have gained about 15 lbs, my waist is actually a little smaller because I find I have to use the next hole tighter on my belts compared to what I used to use. My pants are a bit tighter across the backside, and I don't have as much of a bulge in the front as I once did, although I prefer to think that is age as much as anything. I don't have any female-fit pants. Reproduction isn't a concern for me either, had the big V quite a few years ago, my kids are adults now. My strength is less than it was, but I think that is part of aging and my lifestyle, not the PM.

I don't think my emotional state has really changed in any significant way since I started this process almost 2 years ago. I have always been a level-headed, thinking before acting type and I don't think I am any more or less emotional than I used to be. Just better looking. Smile
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#10

Hi fairly New! Breast cream by Ainterol is very effective! I grow everyday.
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