(07-08-2010, 08:01 AM)motorrunning41 Wrote: Reducing testosterone is hard unless you go with prescription meds and that can be dangerous. There is a fine line when messing with your hormones. Because we are naturally male the reducing testosterone can cause breasts but a rise in estrogen will occur which we already have in our body but this can cause a lot of other issues. DVT’s (Deep Vain Thromboses) weight gain, no ability to get erections, Shrinkage in private areas and so on.
On this site I am a newbie, but I have been around the block a bit and done a considerable amount of research before coming across these forums. Unfortunately, there are some factual errors in the above statements. The risk of DVT's and other thrombo-embolitic events is known to be higher with certain types of exogenous estrogen, specifically with conjugated estrogens (derived from equine sources). These are found in Premarin and similar meds and also birth control pills. Remember, that NO research has been done on males taking these meds. All the contraindications and side effect risks are from research done with women. As far as the drug companies are concerned, none of their medications are approved for use in males.
Transdermal formulations of estriol and estradiol have proved to be much safer in terms of thrombosis risk, as are phytoestrogens. While it is certainly safer to assume that men are subject to the same levels of risk as women (if not higher risk since we would need to take higher amounts of estrogen to achieve the results we are after), it is not true that increased estrogen in males leads to more risk. All available research suggests that it is the actual estrogen in question (equine conjugated estrogens) that contributes to the increased risk factors.
Likewise, estrogen per se does not cause increased weight gain, lose of tumescence in the male or shrinkage of the gonads. Rather, these side effects are the result of decreased testosterone, as can be seen in men that have lost their testes, either voluntarily or involuntarily. The 'opposite' is also seen in the large number of males that suffer (I know, those on this board, wouldn't consider it suffering! LOL) from gynecomastia, but don't have any lose of normal male function. That is, they have enough estrogen in their systems to cause "abnormal" growth of their breasts, but don't lose the ability to have erections or normal sexual relations with their partners.
If someone finds that they have weaker and less frequent erections, or that their genitalia are shrinking, it must be assumed that something is suppressing testosterone production, or increasing the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen. Even if it is the later, it is the lack of testosterone that is causing the observed effects, not the presence of estrogen, though the two are certainly linked.
For me, SP originally combined with FG and PM (I am experimenting with my 'program' right now and it is different) caused a marked drop in testosterone. While I have not had blood tests, the need for and frequency of masturbation has decreased dramatically which has been coincident with decreased desire to look at porn in addition to a decreased need to cross dress. (There is another thread discussing these side effects in this section of the forum.) I also have noticed almost a complete lack of morning erections. I can still attain erections at will, it's just that I no longer do it very often. I am also divorced and between female partners right now, so I don't mind the reduced urge at all.
With regard to the original post, I would recommend revisiting SP and PM, but at higher dosages. I usually take 3 to 4 160 mg SP/D with 2000 to 3000 PM/D. Right now, I am "cycling" and have stopped the PM and replaced it with 3000 mg FP/D. So far, I have not noticed a change in the side effects noted above, so I assume my testosterone levels are remaining relatively constant, and lower than they would be without the herbs.
Hope this helps,
chrishoney
(FYI: I am NOT a physician, but I have a doctorate and practice in a medical field)
