[FLWXPX]

Hey all! I just recently registered with this site (because I just found it) but I am in no way new to this.

A little background: I’m 45, bisexual, biological male, identify and pass as male but I’ve wanted to grow breasts since about 1999.

Back in the late 90’s when I was still new to dating women, I found I would really envy their breasts. At first I just thought it was normal. I’m male, they’re female, OF CPURSE I’m obsessed with breasts! What guy isn’t?  But after a while, I realized I envied them so much because I wanted my own. So I would make my own set of boobs and wear them under my shirt and go out in public to see what kind of reactions I would get. It felt great so that led to step 2, trying on my girlfriend’s clothes behind her back. Now I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole and totally in love with wearing women’s clothes and the idea of having boobs. 

I always knew I would need hormones to grow real ones but was always so scared. Plus no one knew I was bisexual, let alone a cross dresser. On and off dating and 2 marriages kind of put all that on the back burner. 

After the failure of my second marriage, I swore off dating all together. I realized I was always my happiest when I was single and I could do what I wanted when I wanted. So I haven’t dated anyone since 2016. 

But I was still scared to permanently alter my body….until now. I really do want breasts, but only small ones. I’m not interested in fully transitioning or trying to pass as a female. I still want to be a man, but when I take off my shirt, I want to have slightly larger breasts, maybe budding ones, than a normal male enough to get some looks. 

So I’ve done a ton of research on the subject and came to the conclusion that estrogen is my only shot. I’ve read a lot that those “bioestrogen” creams out there don’t work and have been told don’t waste my money on things that promise breasts without actual hormones.
Also, I’m a little scared of taking pills, so I’ve settled on either patches or gels to help me get to where I want to be. 

So I’m here to say hello and kindly ask for any helpful advice you professionals may have. Would either of these products work? How long would it take to get small, budding breasts? Is there any other changes I should know about like looks or mood swings? And can I stop taking the estrogen all together once I reach my desired size, or is that not how this works? Where is the best place to aquire this stuff? I’d prefer to stay away from doctors. I don’t want this to be on my medical record for life. All I want is some small boobs and move on with my life. 

Thank you guys for any help and advice you can offer. 

-David

[Karen Hart]

Okay, here is my suggestion.

You need some kind of anti-androgen to suppress Testosterone.
Something like, Saw Palmetto, Red Reishi Mushroom or White Peony.

Now, I know someone has convinced you that bio-identicals don't work, but that is not true. They work.

You need Estrogen and Progesterone, both.

Estrogen
https://www.amazon.com/HelloPharmacist-Natural-Bioidentical-Estrogen-Menopause/dp/B09ZBMJ14L/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3FODG54VPLG9C&keywords=bioidentical+estrogen+cream&qid=1703714935&sprefix=bioidentical+%2Caps%2C365&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Progesterone -- This product yields 20mg/pump, a good dose but you can get 50 and 75mg products as well.
https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Solutions-Progesterone-Cream-3-Ounces/dp/B0013OXGNU/ref=sr_1_33?crid=2PSBUV3A1VU1R&keywords=bioidentical%2Bprogesterone%2Bcream&qid=1703715706&sprefix=bioidentical%2Bprogesterone%2Bcream%2Caps%2C370&sr=8-33&th=1

Grow as little or as much as you want. When you are happy, stop.
There is no way to predict a time frame... would 6 months to 2 years be okay?
It all depends on your metabolism and how consistent you are in doing this.
It's a slow process. You will not suddenly wake up one day with C-cup breasts, so relax.
You may lose some mass when you stop but be mentally prepared to have them for life.

BTW, I can totally relate to your story about wanting to stay single and free. I should never have gotten married.

[FLWXPX]

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Thank you for the help, Karen. I checked out those items on Amazon and they seem pretty wonderful. I will definitely try them. Now, I know what estrogen is but what is the purpose of the progesterone? 

As for the testosterone blockers, do I HAVE to take them or will the bio-est be strong enough. I’ve had low testosterone my whole life. Not extremely low but on the low end of the scale of what’s considered normal. I’m not hairy at all, most of my skin is naturally smooth. If the blockers are required, how do you suggest I take those products you mentioned? Do they come in pill form or anything? 

I know it’s gonna be a long, slow process. That’s fine. I just wish I would’ve started much sooner. And I’m perfectly ok with having breasts for life! 

I hear you on the regretful marriage. I didn’t learn after my first one. Then I was in a long 5 year relationship after that, but we never got married. I never wanted to marry her cause she had kids. I’ve never wanted any of those crazy things, so I was always very careful where I shot my junk, even when I was drunk! LOL Then my second marriage. It was towards the end of that one when I said, “if this one fails, I’m staying single for the rest of my life.” Cause that’s when I realized I was always happy when I was single and always WISHING I was single when I wasn’t. I can’t even count how many guys I’ve talked to who so envy my life and wish they were single with no kids again. I’m frequently reminded of how lucky I am.

[Karen Hart]

You may not HAVE to use an AA and the only way to know is to try a regimen without it.

What is Progesterone?
The only thing I can tell you is that Estrogen is the dominant female hormone and that Progesterone is also key.
Use Google Images to search for hormone cycle and look for graphs showing the swings of hormone balance.
The first two weeks are estrogen dominant and then it gradually shifts to progesterone for the last two weeks. 

I can tell you that I took herbs on and off for many years and when I discovered Progesterone, it made a huge difference.

An AA will also make a huge difference, for most people.

You can try skipping the AA for the time being but I would not leave out Progesterone.
You would be fighting an uphill battle.

However, try whatever you want... most of us have experimented a lot, over the years.
You learn things and it's kind of fun but you also spend a lot of money and can have poor results.
If time is a factor, find a proven regimen and be consistent with it.

Karen

[FLWXPX]

Thank you, Karen. I really appreciate the info.

I think I’ve come up with a great plan. I detailed it in another post but the basics are: Start with a light dose of WP for a month. Gradually increasing dosage to monitor body response. Month 2 I’ll add a light PM dose, slowly increasing it. Then month 3 I’ll begin the estrogen and progesterone cream. I’m beginning with low testosterone already so that should help.

[Karen Hart]

David,

You really don't need PM if you are going with Bi-Est + Progesterone.
If you prefer, you could go with PM + Progesterone and drop the Bi-Est?

The reason that I say this is because it is helpful to keep the variables at a minimum.
This makes it easier to know what is working and what is not.

[FLWXPX]

Good idea, Karen. Thanks 

That’s why I want to start slow, to make sure nothing is going to screw me up before I start another product. 

I’m getting so excited to start, though. I recently came across an old thread where a guy with a very similar build as me got some great results with just 4 months of PM, I believe. That’s got me very hopeful that I’ll be able to achieve what I’m looking for. I’m a skinny guy, so I don’t want anything that’s gonna draw TOO much attention as I do a lot of outdoor activities shirtless. It’s ALWAYS sunny in Florida 

Thats how I’ve been my whole life, so suddenly changing now by always wearing a shirt will be very suspicious LOL But I’m old enough now that I can just blame it on age and lowering testosterone

[Karen Hart]

I like your idea of easing into it and since you want to do it without an AA, you could go at it in reverse, leaving the AA for last because you may not need it.

Here is a schedule that somewhat replicates the female hormone cycle.
Mimicking the menstrual cycle appeals to many here on this board, but there is no conclusive evidence at this time, that it is any more effective than just using E & P every day. It appeals to me because it gives the body a rest from E & P when they are off cycle, and it also has a week of combined effect.
I have not personally used this approach because I met my growth goals before I knew about this, but this would be my approach if just starting today.

Estrogen (or PM) for weeks 1, 2, & 3. Progesterone on weeks 3 & 4. Keep cycling these like that.

After 3 months, if you are getting some results, you don't need an AA.
If you are not seeing or feeling anything happening after 3 months, add an AA.
Start with a low dose and bump it up every month, until you get results.

Note: I am not a professional, these recommendations are for entertainment purposes only. 

[FLWXPX]

Makes sense. I like that last schedule you mentioned. I’ll do the PM for a few weeks and add progesterone on weeks 3 & 4 and keep cycling like that to see what happens. Should I hold off on the WP until month 3 or 4 or don’t even bother with it?

[Karen Hart]

See what happens. If you are having some success without WP... great. 
If you are not getting anywhere... start the WP.
Three months should be a fair amount of time to know something.
Really, you have to play it by ear. See what happens.
Don't set any firm dates. 

I think the person that you referred to as being your size and making great gains with PM, is Carmen.
She has had excellent results. 

PM is good if you use the right brand. Ainterol or Barlowe's are highly recommended. 
I know that you don't like to take pills, which is why I recommended the Bi-Est cream.
PM and Bi-Est are both powerful products.