[IanW55]

Not wanting to sound as the forum whinger, but I believe that some members are putting their lives at risk by over doing the NBE.

I have commented on a members post, whose breast's look poorly and at risk of cancer, when is enough, enough, how big do you want to be before you are at risk of ill health, because the cure if any is worse than the pain.

Some of the side effects of a CIS male growing breast's can cause back, neck and spinal issues, because of the strain on the body, we are not genetically built for that amount of weight.

Also it is a known fact, that CIS males and transgender women are more prone to breast cancer, pumping in excess causes internal tissue damage which can lead to breast cancer.

Ok I want breast's but not at the risk to my health, in some members it has become a dangerous obsession and it could result an a non treatable episode.

Take care and as they say anthing more than a handful is wasted.

Stay safe
Liz

[wInzIg316]

Not wanting to sound as the forum whinger, but I believe that some members are putting their lives at risk by over doing the NBE.

I have commented on a members post, whose breast's look poorly and at risk of cancer, when is enough, enough, how big do you want to be before you are at risk of ill health, because the cure if any is worse than the pain.

Some of the side effects of a CIS male growing breast's can cause back, neck and spinal issues, because of the strain on the body, we are not genetically built for that amount of weight.

Also it is a known fact, that CIS males and transgender women are more prone to breast cancer, pumping in excess causes internal tissue damage which can lead to breast cancer.

Wise words, Liz!

[HelloDiDi]

I want to chime into this as I might be viewed as being obsessed and over the top some times too, I have also overpumped and paid the price by having to ease down, take time off and do a whole lot of skin care to heal discolouration and blisters and its not fun at all. I'm still not done getting it all dealt with.

I try to go on with NBE health first, being impatient and greedy isn't really good combination with this, but moderation is key to success. Health is priceless, boobs take their time and there's gazillion ways to make them grow and there's awesome knwoledgeable people to ask advice from. For me Lotus in particular has been a huge help along with Stevenator and my sweetheart Melissa among others I've talked with on the way. WE only have one health to ruin, breasts are not worth ruining it as our health has no price tag and once its gone it might be horribly difficult to deal with, or even fatal.

So health first, moderation with dosages and no overpumping! I wrote my Noogling guide with this in mind because I have done the mistakes too and I know the damage it can cause but I feel like I've been a cat landing on her feet with averting lot of trouble by digging into how to do it all and its been a lot of trial and error. Also massage is a fantastic aid or replacement for pumping and it wont cause tissue damage at all. To boost growth factors, tiny cell level damage might even be beneficial, but keep in mind that anything that boosts growth factors and elevates growth hormone can also boost cancerous growth! This reminds me that its very timely to get mt breasts checked as soon as I have access to female healthcare. (Stupid bureaucratic shit prevents me until my gender marker gets changed which is in about a month or two.)

About cancer risks, as far as I know, trans women and cis men are quite close the same as where cis women are with it, on HRT we kinda swap one nasty death for another as prostate cancer risk can go down while breast cancer risk goes up. For myself I'm not sure how this works as I'm intersex (More about this later, more evidence has showed up lately.) but I presure the risks are similar to that of a cis woman. Also no breast cancer in family, but its always somewhat a gamble. But lets play smart and not add to the risks! Tissue damage is a certain way to boost growth factors and HGH, these will always raise cancer risk too as they're part of what makes both healthy and cancerous growth happen. And get your boobs screened, it will always be worth it.

Our health is priceless, boobs are awesome, but health is way more important, play smart, not hard.

[DruLactin]

Men would funny creatures if they could handle 10 pound of upper body musculature but not 3-6 pounds of tit.

[flamesabers]

Hello Liz,

I'm not sure if your message is directed towards someone like me, but I'm a trans woman on HRT. I don't pump or noogle, but that's more of a personal preference than out of a health concern. While it's true that growing breasts puts a person at a greater risk of developing breast cancer (compared to people with tanner 1 stage development for their breasts), I'm a bit perplexed about your comment about a person's breasts being at risk of cancer. AFAIK, a breast cancer diagnosis is usually achieved by methods such as:

1. Physical examination of the breasts
2. Mammogram
3. Ultrasound
4. Biopsy
5. MRI

In other words, people don't take pictures of their breasts using their personal camera or phone, and send the pics to their doctors for analysis.

[HelloDiDi]

Men would funny creatures if they could handle 10 pound of upper body musculature but not 3-6 pounds of tit.

They should try what I'm hauling around... Its like decently heavy backpack which you can feel after some braless days by back aches and hunched shoulders and shitty posture becoming even worse. This was a thing I should have pointed out earlier, no one is meant to carry around massive boobs, but there's a thing with being fit enough to do it. I'm planning on back exercises, rowing motions and dead lift are spot on for this stuff and things are getting so heavy I better get into it.

[IanW55]

Hello,

This thread is absolutely not aimed at any member, all I am trying to do is prompt a discussion about the dangers of excessive breast growth and excessive pumping.

I started this thread because I did not want to hijack Shannons thread about "snatching defeat from the jaws of success" that would be wrong, if you look at the the members photos especially the second one it looks as though there is a lot going on there that on the surface is not good, I am concerned for Shannon .

All I am doing is starting a thread about the potenial dangers of excessive development of breast growth in CIS males (not talking about intersex for that is a different topic in its self).

I just want to have an adult discussion on this topic, this is just like men who do not talk about prostate cancer (I lost my father to prostate cancer so I have a lot of knowledge about it). Then when it is too late they say if only I had got it checked, also do you check your boobs for lumps again if only I had

So PLEASE just be mindful of what you are doing because it may come to a point you are doing yourself harm where there is no cure..

Love to all
Liz

[Shirazmn]

I will leave out the part reagrding the back pain and injury. Not many here will grow as big as HelloDiDi and I think most people will adjust to the new weight. Also, while a genetic male's body is "not built" for the purpose of carrying around big boobs, it is on average stronger than a genetic female's body, so "if a woman can do it" so can a man.

That said, playing with hormones brings an increased risk of both breast and prostate cancer and that's something one should think about from day one. I found some interesting data here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868281/ .
I am not a doctor but it looks like it's the anti-androgenic effect of some combined HRT that can harm more than the presence of Estrogen itself (particularly for the prostate). Anyway, the study follows pharma HRT regimes that are definitely stronger than herbal supplements. Since the effect of herbs is not yet fully documented we can probably expect th elevel of danger to be proportional to the amount of hormones introduced in the body that way, which means that eating flax seed or drinking soy milk is less dangerous than taking PM, which is less dangerous than doing full HRT (in terms of Estrogen induced cancers). 
I don't know if the same goes for Anti Androgens (SP, WP etc...) as they can be quite effective but I am not sure how effective. Still, E monotherapies seem to be those that cause fewer cases of cancer, and adding AA (T-suppressors) or Progesterone seems to make the risk higher.

Pumps are a different story. I am not sure of the moderate use of pumps (Noogle) can in fact cause cancer. It can cause leasions and bleeding, which are things that usually fix themselves, but I don't think anyone here is into bruising their chest permanently. Those who cause makes to appear on their skin, usually slow down once they realise.

I find that what many genetic males are doing here is simply to try and match their body with the inner image of themselves. It's not far from what trans people do, and I don't think that the task is less holy than transition is. Unfortunately we don't know what's in each person's mind. We don't know what make others happy: some are satisfied with an A cup, while others don't think anything less than a D cup is "boobs". I believe that a good information thread on the risks of breast growth with some scientific data is a good idea, but let's not forget that many of us will only stop when their mind is satisfied.

[HelloDiDi]

I will leave out the part reagrding the back pain and injury. Not many here will grow as big as HelloDiDi and I think most people will adjust to the new weight. Also, while a genetic male's body is "not built" for the purpose of carrying around big boobs, it is on average stronger than a genetic female's body, so "if a woman can do it" so can a man.

That said, playing with hormones brings an increased risk of both breast and prostate cancer and that's something one should think about from day one. I found some interesting data here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868281/ .
I am not a doctor but it looks like it's the anti-androgenic effect of some combined HRT that can harm more than the presence of Estrogen itself (particularly for the prostate). Anyway, the study follows pharma HRT regimes that are definitely stronger than herbal supplements. Since the effect of herbs is not yet fully documented we can probably expect th elevel of danger to be proportional to the amount of hormones introduced in the body that way, which means that eating flax seed or drinking soy milk is less dangerous than taking PM, which is less dangerous than doing full HRT (in terms of Estrogen induced cancers). 
I don't know if the same goes for Anti Androgens (SP, WP etc...) as they can be quite effective but I am not sure how effective. Still, E monotherapies seem to be those that cause fewer cases of cancer, and adding AA (T-suppressors) or Progesterone seems to make the risk higher.

Pumps are a different story. I am not sure of the moderate use of pumps (Noogle) can in fact cause cancer. It can cause leasions and bleeding, which are things that usually fix themselves, but I don't think anyone here is into bruising their chest permanently. Those who cause makes to appear on their skin, usually slow down once they realise.

I find that what many genetic males are doing here is simply to try and match their body with the inner image of themselves. It's not far from what trans people do, and I don't think that the task is less holy than transition is. Unfortunately we don't know what's in each person's mind. We don't know what make others happy: some are satisfied with an A cup, while others don't think anything less than a D cup is "boobs". I believe that a good information thread on the risks of breast growth with some scientific data is a good idea, but let's not forget that many of us will only stop when their mind is satisfied.

Well there's that, for myself I have to mention that I have background in bodybuilding, construction jobs and decades of heavy metal drumming, all of which obviously have given quite good base to build upon with core strength. But then again, lack of practice with a lot of stuff and time on HRT does diminish muscle strength to correspond with that of a cis woman, so typically to around 70% of previous performance. Of course this can be offset with exercise. So lot of back/neck/shoulder issues can be avoided with exercise and wearing well fitting heavy duty bras.

Interesting note about prostate cancer risk and HRT, I'm on cyproterone acetate as T blocker which is used on high doses to treat (terminal?) prostate cancers, so that should on small doses block T and likely lessen the cancer risk to some degree, but I have no science to back this up other than its actual cancer medicine. This is peculiar thing about bioidentical estrogen which is what pretty much everyone on HRT is on, its literally the same stuff ur bodies produce on their own, biggest difference appears to be the method of adminstration, oral being repeatedly said to be the least good of them all as that includes liver metabolism. Transdermal and injection should work pretty much as if our bodies made the stuff naturally. Cancer risks caused by Estrogen and progesterone I'm not really sure about, I'm not seeing lot of cis women dropping dead from having these going on, some times on very high levels too. But is there a difference when this is artificially induced into a XY male or XXY/XX/mosaic intersex body? That would be very interesting to learn about, I have never seen a study done on that.

The blistering, discolouration, edge marks and possible scar tissue in the worst case is what overpumping can do, the latter I'm not sure if anyone has been able to do, I think causing actual deep scarring would be very difficult and too painful to make happen. Long term discolouration though can totally happen and its not fun to heal it. I got that problem when my gauged pump drank water and broke so I was forced on using the gaugeless pump which was a big no no as I overdid it without being sure where the pressure is. That discolouration added up for a while and its still slowly healing which has taken a long time. So smartest way is to use the gauge, keep pressures moderate and take frequent days off especially if blood blisters happen.

I think the likely worst outcome wouldbe some deeper than skin tissue damage which might not fully heal but turn into scar tissue and that could be nasty, also likely very painful to make it go that bad.

[Karen Hart]

Liz,

Thank you for posting this much needed thread. 

We should promote the practice of caution and moderation, on our way to our goals.

Karen