[Solstice]

Hey folks! Trans woman here, I've been lurking for months in advance of going on hormones (one way or another, come hell or high water) by the end of this year. My goals right now are just to do what I can to encourage breast (and butt) growth in the first year of HRT - I don't need to maximise my potential or anything yet, I'm just want to make sure I'm giving them the best chance I can as they fly the nest... so to speak. 

I think the basics are in place - I'm healthy, eat well, get my omegas, mostly get enough sleep, exercise plenty and have low body fat. I've got some chest muscle which should help make things look bigger, if I can cover it up with breast tissue. But I'm paranoid that there's something I'd miss going on HRT that could have given me much better results if only I'd known beforehand.

As I said, I've been reading around and doing a lot of digging through Project X, but it's all quite overwhelming. If anyone sees this and could point me in the direction of any kind of overview, especially of Lotus' research and ideas, I'd be so grateful. The information seems to all be there but it's so scattered that my ADHD brain can't make sense of it. I'm hoping there's some cheat code, like if I can just keep my blood test levels within a certain range I'm all good. But then there's also localised & topical treatments to consider.

I'll likely be going on E and some kind of blocker (not spiro), and no progesterone (but maybe I should). Currently I'm wondering if I should stay on finasteride during HRT - I'd rather stay on stuff that I already know is fine and not giving me side effects. I'm also thinking about maca, to counter the negative libido effects of my ADHD meds + fin + HRT (plus DHEA sounds cool), and since it apparently helps you fill out down below. Overall, I'm just really not sure how to think about this from first principles - how to make these decisions about what to take, based on what metrics etc. Any help would be so much appreciated!

[HelloDiDi]

Welcome in. What I'm doing is mostly Lotus's ideas put in practice. You better read her threads as that's where you find all the in depth detailed stuff which might be a bit overwhelming to get into, but she's just far better with all the studies and science stuff.

Be extra careful about DHEA, its a gery area with what it does. I tried it few times and it never worked on me, it made me feel like it gave my T levels a massive spike. So proceed with caution.

About body fat, guess what most of female curves are made of? Yep. The thing is that HRT will likely make you gain some, but you can help it out a lot by doing moderate weight cycling. I see so many girls make this mistake that they want to become curvy, but then they're skinny as a board, there's no way to be skinny as board and get decent curves at the same time, it just doesn't work like that. So if you're down to say 10%, you may want to double that. (I used to lift irons and was really dry summer squirrel back in the day, started out quite skinny and now I'm anything but.)

You may want to look into MSM, Vitamin D3 and Calcium combination on the side of your HRT, its healthy, gives a nice boost to your boobs and is quite cheap and easy to get.

Happy growing. <3

Lara

[Solstice]

Hey Lara, thank you for the welcome! Good to know about DHEA - I'm on a DHT blocker and pre-HRT so I feel like I could play with it a bit now and see what happens. The non-feminisation effects (anti-aging etc.) seem worth it on their own and I read somewhere from Lotus that it could up-regulate hormones for use on an aromatase-based programme, so seemed worth trying out.

About body fat, guess what most of female curves are made of? Yep. The thing is that HRT will likely make you gain some, but you can help it out a lot by doing moderate weight cycling. I see so many girls make this mistake that they want to become curvy, but then they're skinny as a board, there's no way to be skinny as board and get decent curves at the same time, it just doesn't work like that. So if you're down to say 10%, you may want to double that. (I used to lift irons and was really dry summer squirrel back in the day, started out quite skinny and now I'm anything but.)

Oh yeah I'm totally trying to gain weight at the moment! Mostly in service of putting on muscle below my waist but also to have those healthy reserves for HRT, and practice for putting on weight once it starts redistributing. It's always been super hard for me though - good problem to have I guess. Planning on getting some calipers to keep track of it and aim for somewhere in the female healthy range long-term.

You may want to look into MSM, Vitamin D3 and Calcium combination on the side of your HRT, its healthy, gives a nice boost to your boobs and is quite cheap and easy to get.

I'll check this out! Any good threads on it here?

[HelloDiDi]

Hey Lara, thank you for the welcome! Good to know about DHEA - I'm on a DHT blocker and pre-HRT so I feel like I could play with it a bit now and see what happens. The non-feminisation effects (anti-aging etc.) seem worth it on their own and I read somewhere from Lotus that it could up-regulate hormones for use on an aromatase-based programme, so seemed worth trying out.

Oh yeah I'm totally trying to gain weight at the moment! Mostly in service of putting on muscle below my waist but also to have those healthy reserves for HRT, and practice for putting on weight once it starts redistributing. It's always been super hard for me though - good problem to have I guess. Planning on getting some calipers to keep track of it and aim for somewhere in the female healthy range long-term.

You may want to look into MSM, Vitamin D3 and Calcium combination on the side of your HRT, its healthy, gives a nice boost to your boobs and is quite cheap and easy to get.

I'll check this out! Any good threads on it here?

DHEA can be a weird one as it has such a long list of possible effects. Its a bit problematic as its adaptogen, for me it obviously did not fit at all, something about it made me feel like my T is going sky high, skin problems, irritation, anger and so on. All the things that starting HRT fixed from me in the first place. Also if you're looking into boosting IGF-1(Insulin like growth factor, aids with breast development.), there are other methods on how to boost it. Anything that raises human growth hormone seems to indirectly kick IGF-1 higher also, this is part of what MSM does btw.

Weight cycling is a thing to look into and it seems that further your fat distribution changes, more effective weight cycles become, this on my part is theoretical, Melissa knows more about this. You're a hard gainer? That might become easier as you start HRT. For me weight has always been a two way road with both easy gain and loss, but along HRT, gaining has become super easy to the point where if I don't watch my eating, I would become a BBW rather quickly.

Lotus's thread has a whole bunch of stuff about MSM + D3 + Calcium combo. I take MSM as raw powder mised with water, D3 and Calcium as generic supplement pills. I've had this on since before I was on HRT and I highly recommend it for both health effects and aiding breast development.

Just out of curiosity, which DHT blocker are you on?

[Lotus]

Hey there Solstice, lol sure you can always ask me, I've been busy working on something special for Breastnexum but I'm always willing to help when I can. 

Maca already stimulates DHEA, no sense in adding DHEA, in my experience DHEA is such a wildcard, meaning it's so unpredictable no one I've ever have the pleasure working with benefited from its use, that goes for both genders. 

Finasteride inhibits allopregnanolone, meaning it modulates GABA-A receptors through its pathway and causes depression. So if you're on it now you may want to replace it down the road, the study below found 9.4% of study participants were affected by finasteride. So fin + ADHD are probably not a good fit. I'm on bicalutamide, even after having an orchidectomy, but my reasons for being on bica are for upcoming bottom surgery. I still continue grow my breasts, which I'll be posting new results soon. Anyways, I can help you develop a plan if you'd like? give me a pm to discuss. 


Finasteride induced depression: a prospective study
Our results are in agreement with the past published reports [15], and indicate that finasteride might induce depressive symptoms

Finasteride associated side effects were reported by 9.4% of patients in this study.
https://bmcclinpharma.biomedcentral.com/...2-6904-6-7

[Mel87]

Hiya Solstice!

Welcome I'm guessing you'll be on oral E for awhile as you graduate to more higher doses, patches and injectable E are both amazing sources of Estrogen, if you can also source implant based E that would be new as it is available but hard to come by   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacoki..._estradiol

Progesterone is kinda added in at T3 either rectally or oral and there are benefits to both usually that's the consensus with getting the most gains and getting there can depend on the individual it took me a little longer than most but if you ever read my thread you'll see why 

Lotus's thread is amazing (HIYA LOTUS!!) I read it from cover to cover over the span of a month it has a wealth of knowledge and her thought process changing overtime was quite a fun read but I love the science of it all.

Weight cycling is a bit difficult it takes about 11 years due to fat cell life cycles, your literally waiting on them to die and be replaced as their total number is fixed... unless you do some err massive weight gain forcing a split. We replace about 8.7% a year and that is with optimal hormones and things like no smoking, environment etc. So if you do weight cycle it might not matter in the short term but longer term around 2 years you can play with it just do it small and keep to checking measurements, like if your waist outpaces everything stop and go down, with luck you'll keep it everywhere else and the one rule is to only gain or lose 1lb at a time weekly as too fast and it'll go right to the tummy, while too quickly down will take it from the assets as well.

I'd also like to chime in on Finasteride, it's usually a starter blocker, if you can get a complete blocker like Decapeptyl SR 11.25mg (triptorelin pamoate) you won't need a DHT blocker. I suffered from a very very bad case of Post-Finasteride Syndrome its not pretty and can literally give you suicidal feelings, depression and anxiety in the long term and suddenly stopping. Though in my case I was on it almost 3 years so you might be fine for awhile.

[Lotus]

Hi Mel, good tips on fat cell life and fin, I had my issue with using it and and with spiro, and with doctors refusing to write for anything else. 

[Mel87]

Your welcome and yeah Finasteride doesn't play nice with other blockers, it especially likes to raise T if you use it with another at least that what my clinic told me about my issues. I don't like spiro too many scary stories, I went right to injectable aww I hope they might listen to your needs!

[Solstice]

So much useful and thoughtful info already - I feel very looked after! 

Really interesting about fin - I actually noticed some not great feelings as of this last week, but fading once the ADHD meds kick in.

I'd also like to chime in on Finasteride, it's usually a starter blocker, if you can get a complete blocker like Decapeptyl SR 11.25mg (triptorelin pamoate) you won't need a DHT blocker. I suffered from a very very bad case of Post-Finasteride Syndrome its not pretty and can literally give you suicidal feelings, depression and anxiety in the long term and suddenly stopping.

Only been on it for a few months, but I understand it's normal to start on deca 6 months into HRT or so, and don't think I have a great alternative until then... I didn't realise that post-finasteride syndrome is a thing though, that's a little scary. I'm only on 1 mg but I guess I'd want to gradually reduce the dose before coming off?

Just out of curiosity, which DHT blocker are you on?

Finasteride is the DHT blocker I was referring to. I'd eventually look at going on decapeptyl but I need to look at when would be the right time to introduce it - NHS only introduce it after 6 months on E I think (plus it costs a bunch...). I've heard terrible things about spiro and will avoid it at all costs.

Also if you're looking into boosting IGF-1(Insulin like growth factor, aids with breast development.), there are other methods on how to boost it. Anything that raises human growth hormone seems to indirectly kick IGF-1 higher also, this is part of what MSM does btw.

I plan to boost HGH as much as I can with workouts, good sleep & diet and fasting (think I can manage one fast day a week and still put on weight...), and certainly keen to boost it with supplements if I can. I've heard good things about melatonin.


I wasn't planning on adding DHEA, just seeing how maca goes but, honestly, that's just because it's easily available and seems to have lots of health benefits, I'm not wedded to it if it interferes with HRT/NBE.

You're a hard gainer? That might become easier as you start HRT. For me weight has always been a two way road with both easy gain and loss, but along HRT, gaining has become super easy to the point where if I don't watch my eating, I would become a BBW rather quickly.

Ha! That would be a very different world for me - never had a shred of fat. Part of me is envious of people who can change all that so easily. I am a hard gainer, or at least just don't have a natural propensity to eat enough to put anything on (far too preoccupied with the latest hyperfocus). I've started tracking it a lot more seriously now though, with some success.

the one rule is to only gain or lose 1lb at a time weekly as too fast and it'll go right to the tummy, while too quickly down will take it from the assets as well.

Good to know about not putting it on too quickly though! I'm guessing that means it's going to your visceral fat which I know is a big no-no. I figure fasting is also a good idea to promote lipolysis when you're playing with your weight like this.

Welcome I'm guessing you'll be on oral E for awhile as you graduate to more higher doses

I'm currently weighing up DIYing it or shelling out, but I guess either way I'd start on oral. I'm hoping I'd be on NHS E long-term and I don't think they do injections.

Weight cycling is a bit difficult it takes about 11 years due to fat cell life cycles

Super interesting... sounds like a lot more reading is required. I've read scary things about weight cycling and putting on visceral fat but not related to NBE/feminisation, rather, at longer timescales / larger fluctuations, so maybe not applicable here.

I've been busy working on something special for Breastnexum but I'm always willing to help when I can.

This sounds very exciting. I'll PM you shortly Lotus!

[Mel87]

I was 5mg but it was quartered daily, it reacted with me perfectly but I noticed some weirdness here and there on some blood results and the results I should have at my stage of my transition. I think you'll be fine I think this only matters with long term dosages too I mean I was on it a long time and it interreacted with my decap for just as long, my best advice once you can switch to a better blocker drop it.

Oh I noticed you mentioned NHS awesome a fellow UK, yup so you'll see they do offer decap after 6s as you say, some groups I'm wondering if your private? GenderCare and GenderGP both offer good selections I know GGP you can get Bicca, Cypro or even Decap if you desire but I know GC likes Spiro a lot (not me I hate it) 

You might call yourself a hard gainer but wait until you see what E will do along side low T it can be a struggle to lose weight and ever so easy to gain 

Possibly, I do intermittent fasting 16/8 program and have done forever, mostly as a glucose control but it does have interesting interactions with lipolysis but this method is also good for HGH so its a weird balance of what you desire.

Yeah the NHS doesn't do injections....yet? I mean its cheaper for the NHS to produce it inhouse right now than purchase the products they give even in bulk, women on menopause treatments would get better access to patches without the usual shortages too, though injectable e comes in a few forms Valerate, Cypionate and Enanthate and there are different advantages to all 3 but I so wish they would honestly 

Early in a transition weight cycling is quite limited and with amab bodies most fat is contained as visceral, women tend to have a "second layer" or its just twice as thick as in men on subcutaneous fat, so its going to take some time to relocate and match your genetic ratios (look at mom)