[Malar_Oli]

Hi, I am new to this site, hope i will get some help here

Is there any way to get female like "belly, hip and butt" without surgery or
Hormones (because i don't wants to loose my penis function and it hard erections)?

Is there any Natural herb or any other practices to help me?

[JustAbbey]

You’re not likely to see much gynoid fat increase with just herbs - the antiandrogenic effects just aren’t strong enough. T is a much stronger regulator of fat distribution than E, so you’re not likely to see the changes you want unless you’re on a pharma antiandrogen. 

That said, a mix of waist training, weight loss and muscle building can get you larger butt and hips relative to your upper torso. But you’ll always have a lower body fat percentage and ‘maleness’ unless you get your T levels down and E levels up. 

All that said, you may not experience erectile dysfunction using antiandrogens. I never did. You lose spontaneous erections (morning wood) and ejaculate volume, but you can still get an erection if you’re aroused. But what arouses you can change/get more complicated. 

Good luck!

—Abbey

[Manue]

You’re not likely to see much gynoid fat increase with just herbs - the antiandrogenic effects just aren’t strong enough. T is a much stronger regulator of fat distribution than E, so you’re not likely to see the changes you want unless you’re on a pharma antiandrogen.

Hello Abbey, forgive me if I'm wrong. From my understanding, is it possible that T isn't that a problem when free, because it is available for Aromatization? I don't think T is "the bad guy".

DHT is stronger than T imo and does use use T. By antagonizing DHT, you have more free T to convert into Estrogen. I don't know how much herbs alone can lower DHT, but from my own experience, I believe it can go a long way, but this is not what Malar Oli wants as it shrinks the parts and makes hair thinner.

In response to OP's question, that's why PM is the main used herb as it promotes the curves from Phytoestrogen without affecting too much the "manhood" but the effect will vary for every individual as we have a different metabolism. Of course. We can observe the results through the dozens of testimonies.

Pharma, unfortunately, seems to focus at ramming T to the ground which I believe is counter productive. I compare it with killing a fly using a bazooka. Too much collateral. I would put more attention on the specifics of DHT, Aromatization and avoid umbrella terms about the "manhood".

I'm not dicouraging Pharma by the way, simply nuancing. I might use it myself for specific purposes mainly to reduce oral supplementation and fine-tuning.

Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture yet, but this is what I understand.

[JustAbbey]

Hi Manue, no worries! Circulating (free) T can most definitely be an issue for men. DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) is simply a more potent form of testosterone used by most of the testosterone sensitive tissues in the body, and synthesized from Testosterone. True, the body converts a small amount of circulating T into E through aromatization, but this is minuscule compared to the total amount of T in most men. For example, the health range of circulating serum Testosterone for men is around 500 ng/ml of blood, while the standard range of circulating serum Estradiol in women is between 100 and 200 pg/ml - a difference of 3 orders of magnitude (1 nanogram == 1000 picograms), and the sub 10 ng/dl amount of T in women is plenty to aromatize into E given the relative difference.

The second important thing to note is that Testosterone acts as an antagonist (inhibitor) in addition to an agonist in certain endocrine and reproductive tissues. Estradiol has a small agonist effect, but in many cases is easily 'drowned out' by the much much stronger antagonistic effect of higher concentrations of circulating T. In the subcutaneous adipose (fat) system, T is a much strong antagonist for fat accumulation generally. So while the gynoid fat regions (and regions in the face) are preferentially active with higher circulating E levels, T has an overwhelming suppressive effect for fat storage across the entire body (and in the gynoid regions specifically) cancelling out any small agonistic effect you might see. The opposite seems to be true in the visceral fat stores, which do show a suppressive effect from E - which is why peri/post menopausal women will gain visceral belly fat and get an 'apple' shape.

The third thing to understand is that phytoestrogens present in plants are estrogen analogs, but not nearly as potent in the human endocrine system as estradiol. Though you will see high (normal) Estradiol levels reduce T production to very low levels over time, phytoestrogens are too weak to have the same effect in male sex and endocrine tissues. Breast tissue, however, is uniquely sensitive to estrogens in the male body. Because the mammary tissue develops early on in gestation (prior to the 8th week when testosterone begins to inhibit development of the female sex organs), both men and women end up with exactly the same set of nascent mammary cells. So when men add in any level of E at all (even weaker phytoestrogens, or through changes to the hypothalamic-pituary axis and aromatization) it can trigger some breast growth. Testosterone doesn't have a clear inhibitory effect on breast tissue itself, since these tissues develop well before T is circulating in the fetal body. Rather decreases or changes in serum T affect how the male body produces Estrogens (lower T can lead to slight increases in circulating E, triggering gynecomastia in older men for example).

There isn’t great research on this, but my theory is that some trans women struggle with advanced breast growth precisely because their T levels are still elevated and inhibit fat deposition which can account for 50% of breast volume in cis women.

Tying it all back together; small breast growth is relatively easy because any amount of elevated E will lead to some amount of growth, and the necessary E concentrations are so small they are achieved either through supplementation (easy) or aromatization of existing T (harder without some sort of pharma or aging, etc). However, other changes in the body that are E dependent (gynoid fat adipogenesis for example) are heavily suppressed by T, so even a relatively large increase in E will have little effect without a dramatic (80-90%) reduction in T (or DHT with a 5a reductase inhibitor like finasteride/dutasteride).

Hope this helps!

--Abbey

[Malar_Oli]

So thing is there is no way it see " alt="" title=""> , but its ok, thank u for your replies

[Manue]

Tying it all back together; small breast growth is relatively easy because any amount of elevated E will lead to some amount of growth, and the necessary E concentrations are so small they are achieved either through supplementation (easy) or aromatization of existing T (harder without some sort of pharma or aging, etc). However, other changes in the body that are E dependent (gynoid fat adipogenesis for example) are heavily suppressed by T, so even a relatively large increase in E will have little effect without a dramatic (80-90%) reduction in T (or DHT with a 5a reductase inhibitor like finasteride/dutasteride).

Hope this helps!

--Abbey

Thank you for putting this together Abbey. I really appreciate and I think I have a better understanding now.

So thing is there is no way it see   , but its ok, thank u for your replies.

I believe you should keep on reading. I've been looking for a solution to the same issue myself. Even though, you asked about herbs, I'll point you to THIS REPLY #25 I received on my own program thread. I have a delivery incoming already, but the pharmacist warned me that the effect wanes over time so it cannot be used continuously. I'm going to post updates about the effects in the future.

[Malar_Oli]

Hmmm, thank u for your replies manue

But I was very tiered working on this " alt="" title=""> 

Hmm, i think i have to take rest from this for somethimes, it is making my disaphora really worst

Ho ,man, I am really feeling too much that , y i didn't born as straight women instead, uffff

And sorry for my late reply girl

[AliceDydro]

I think you can get some of the effects by crushing up PM, then dissolving it with Don't Grow There hair minimizer, and mix that with DMSO. Apply to the buttocks and thighs.

Beauty pants (clear plastic pants) can hold it mostly in place overnight.

[Zhuzhu]

[unnecessary quoting removed]












I've lost weight and have deposits of fat towards the armpit side of my breasts which I'm sure is going to my breasts and also my butt is slowly becoming plump(er).  I've been on this a long time but I am an older girl (it is nice to say iI am a girl) and my T is VERY low.  However we all are different.  The key for me in this journey is not to expect things to change very quickly, disappointment is your enemy and can easily make you quit as it has for me sometimes in the past.  

But measuring helps build confidence.  I'm now a good B cup which if I remove my shirt one can see my nipples are female and my breasts are slowly getting rounder (so I never take my shirt off in public).

I hope my words encourage 

 Zhu

[Teddy]

Hi Zhuzhu,

Thank you for your encouragement.  I am targeting to roughly "B"cup  size, and wish really much to get somewhat more feminine hip/butt. So far I guess my breasts are approaching A-cup, but the hips and butt aren't changed in a visible way. However, my NBE regimen didn't really intensify before beginning of last year.

Hugs
Teddy