[Siman234]

Hi, so I had another thread where I was focused on asking questions, but I mainly want to use this one for keeping a small journal and seeing if the MSM and Tincture regime HelloDidi talks about is functional on me as another point of reference for the supplement, and what effects it has.

I was on PM/a herbal anti-androgen I can't remember for 2 years, and now I've moved to proper medication, estrogen and Cyproterone, which I'm currently getting from InHousePharmacy. Just recently moved up to a 3mg sublingual dose on the estrogen a bit ago, and take 12.5mg of cypro daily.

My oldest measurement is from September 2018 at a 35 inch band and a 38 inch chest, at the moment it's 36 inch on the band and 42 and a half on the chest. That would calculate out to be a DDD bra, but I don't think it comes out to being that at all. My shoulders are wider so I seem to fill a 38B bra on the tightest strap setting at the moment. Although my breasts are fuller in the morning, so I can only really completely fill it then. Looking for a more accurate way to measure volume and growth.

I saw a lot of filling and growth on prescription medication, my chest went from poking out to filling and rounding out. My nipples rest on a sphere instead of a cone now.

Anyways, I mainly want to focus this on being another angle on if the MSM+Vitamin D3/Tincture approach HelloDIDI is using gives me any results as another data point to see the effects it has on another person.

In full, my approach and regime is the following; all mass measure in grams.

Morning: 1/2 2mg Estrofem Sublingually - A couple of Omega3 pills

Mid-day: 1/2 2mg Estrofem Sublingually - One dropperful of Cayenne and Ginseng Tincture mixed in 32 fl.oz of water, drunken over the day.

Night: 1/2 2mg Estrofem Sublingually - 12.5mg of Cyproterone - 50mcg of Vitamin D3 - 3g of MSM

Sometime during the day: Breast massage for at least 3 minutes. 

I've been doing breast massage for about a week now, and I'm surprised the instant reaction my chest had. The day after my first massage, only lasting a few minutes, it perked up and rounded out overnight. It didn't get that growing ache I get when my chest is growing, but it did clearly react positively to the massage. 

I've currently been on the MSM+D3+Tincture combo for 3 days now, and on my first half day, I only had 3g of MSM, had no time for the tinctures on day zero, and I felt an immediate change the next day, my chest was rounder and a slight ache showed up. I've felt it much stronger before, but it basically feels like the breast feeling a bit sore when you squish it. I've felt it so much before it was very lightly painful, but this was just a passive, unpainful soreness. 

On day one, I finally mixed a tincture. I'm only learning now that I only used half of the tincture I should have, but maybe it's placebo, but I did feel my chest be a bit rounder and more sore on my next day waking up. A couple of days later, today, that light soreness is still there. I feel there's a very small change between just the MSM and the MSM and the tincture, but I did use half of one serving of the tincture, and they recommend using 1 or 2 servings a day.

At the moment I am definitely feeling effects from the MSM, and I think I also am from the tincture. I'll report once I get on a proper dose of it. The cayenne tincture is meant to help burn/reallocate belly fat, and while I've heard promising anecdotal evidence on it, I doubt it will have much of an effect on me. I'm around 210lbs at 6 feet, and while I have a ton of butt and thigh fat from gaining most of that weight while on PM, I do have a bit of a stomach still. I would love to see the unhealthy visceral fat melt away, and would be giddy as all out if it worked. More food to the butt the better.

I also need to get back on HIIT exercise to make even more growth hormone, since it seems to work.

My most recent measurements before starting were, in inches;

10/16/21
Thigh: 25.5
Hip: 45
Waist: 40
Chest: 42.5
Weight: 211

Either way, I won't be updating this too often, maybe weekly-ish, or be showing any pictures, sorry, I'm not one to put pictures on the internet, and I'm more interested numbers and passing information through trying parts of another persons regime myself to see if the effects can be replicated, and if it can, it's another option for people looking to grow.

I hope I can contribute something to helping people in the future, along with the massive help this forum has given me.

[HelloDiDi]

Hi Siman.

Its interesting to see someone else doing this on the side of HRT.... I tend to think of these things as supplemental, kinda subtle little things to kick the effects of HRT on higher gear. But I'm somewhat of an outlier on this as my body reacts strongly and fast on seemingly any change. Good to see someone else trying this stuff out too. (Oh and thank Lotus for all this, I'm doing a lot based on her advice.)

I think a timetable to expect changes is 1-2 months or so, most of the time there's always kind of a wind up when something new is introduced. Got to "wake up" your system first, how long that takes is purely individual thing.

For me the vitamin D3 and MSM combo was a game changer, when I started that, it seemed to enhance what the phytoestrogen was already doing. These two I think are overall so good for health they're worth taking. I'm now 27 days in with the tincture and there's an obvious difference. But its hard to tell what does what as I'm on other stuff too, its great to see others try this stuff out so there's a better idea on how they work.

[Siman234]

Hi Siman. " alt="" title="">

Its interesting to see someone else doing this on the side of HRT.... I tend to think of these things as supplemental, kinda subtle little things to kick the effects of HRT on higher gear. But I'm somewhat of an outlier on this as my body reacts strongly and fast on seemingly any change. Good to see someone else trying this stuff out too. (Oh and thank Lotus for all this, I'm doing a lot based on her advice.)

I think a timetable to expect changes is 1-2 months or so, most of the time there's always kind of a wind up when something new is introduced. Got to "wake up" your system first, how long that takes is purely individual thing.

For me the vitamin D3 and MSM combo was a game changer, when I started that, it seemed to enhance what the phytoestrogen was already doing. These two I think are overall so good for health they're worth taking. I'm now 27 days in with the tincture and there's an obvious difference. But its hard to tell what does what as I'm on other stuff too, its great to see others try this stuff out so there's a better idea on how they work. " alt="" title="">

Definitely, I want to report what happens to me to get another perspective and see if effects can be recreated on my end, and if not, see what effects I get and try to create any average. I'm already feeling an effect from the MSM, although it doesn't feel massively strong yet. Maybe my body does need to wake up to it as you're saying. I feel less from the tinctures so far but I am getting on more of it as I speak because I was only using half a dropperful on the first few days. To my knowledge having more growth hormone is a good thing as your body has more to repair any damage with, which is always nice.

Lotus has definitely put in an immense amount of work and I'm very glad to be following that.

My body has felt more sluggish responding to things, I guess I did react strongly to proper medication at first, but the MSM and tinctures have been a small but noticeable change. Massaging was what surprised me the most as that had an overnight effect on shape and fullness the following morning.

[Siman234]

Very small update since I'm feeling new things, I made sure to have a full dropperful of the tinctures yesterday and my chest feels a good bit more achey today, more than the past couple of days right after I got on MSM. May be body adjusting, may be the full tincture dose. Either way that ache has always been a good sign of growth in general. Still measuring 42.5 on chest, stomach hasn't changed, I know that won't be for a while, but the greater ache is a good sign for the tincture.

Also been walking more and that may help with growth hormone, although I need to get back into HIIT.

I mix the tinctures into one big 32 fl.oz cup of water I drink over the day, and I feel with how diluted it is I could maybe do two dropperfuls at some point, like it recommends on the side of the tincture. The taste of the water changes so little, it becomes a tiny tiny bit more sweet, like a different type of tap water. Not bad at all. A con to that is I don't know how long the tinctures would last if I had more.

Either way, nothing has changed too much, but I'm definitely feeling that growth ache I get when the chest is doing things.

[Siman234]

Alright, small update ten days later. Nothing of note. No noticeable size increase on any part of me. Still too soon to say, but my chest is still lightly sore.

Consistently getting one dropperful of each tincture a day, and 3mg of estrogen. Considering upping that further after a while and seeing if anything else happens. Will be looking into progesterone when I restock my estrogen around new years. 

Priority is restarting exercise soon, since I know that has massive impacts on growth hormone.

[HelloDiDi]

Anything that kicks up growth hormone will also kick up IGF-1, both are essential for breast growth so great idea there. I should start exercising more too as I've been really lazy. I'm gonna make a quick update on my thread, something about the tincture too.

[Siman234]

Anything that kicks up growth hormone will also kick up IGF-1, both are essential for breast growth so great idea there. " alt="" title=""> I should start exercising more too as I've been really lazy. I'm gonna make a quick update on my thread, something about the tincture too.

I think there may have been a decent change in how achey my chest feels after I did a bit of hiit two nights ago, but that may also be to a lot of rubbing I did last night.

Regarding tinctures and body comp, I'm, not exactly the thinnest, and I really don't mind that at all, I prefer it, I just wish it was more in the hips. I've yet to see much change around my belly on the tinctures, but there's a lot more stomach to go through than you had, although I have noticed I lost an inch on my stomach thanks to a lower carb higher fat diet over the last three months. Trying to get at that visceral fat. 

I ended up gaining 50 pounds when I was back on pm and to proper estrogen, and it's why my profile is half femenine for my genetics, sits right in the middle. Now that I'm on much more estrogen, and I eat better, I hope it gradually goes to the hips, and burns off the stomach, and that the tincture helps.

Frankly I think I want bigger hips more than I want a bigger chest, my butt goes out backwards but it hasn't really filled out to be full, the sides of my hips lack a good bit of fat, have a hip dip in I don't like, but I'm giving my best to at both, my significant other loves breasts, but both are fun.

This, isn't very informative, sorry, I'm just dreaming.

No real changes observed yet, other than that ache that's still there, which is a good sign. I may have measured my chest at 42.6? But that's in margin of error so I can't call that growth yet. My stomach changes an inch on the day to day depending on how much I eat so can't tell yet there either. Two weeks still isn't long enough to tell yet at all.

Question, you said you did half a dropperful in the morning and at night. I do one dropperful in one more diluted drink I drink over the day. Sometimes I drink it in an hour or two. Would that reduce efficacy of it at all or does it probably not matter?

[Siman234]

Welp, something happened.

I've been measuring my chest every couple of days every since I started, and it's been 42.5 on the dot every day. Last time I measured my chest was probably 3 or 4 days ago. Been consistent with the MSM and tinctures, went to bed, had a bit longer of a massage session than usual, and went about my day.

Decided to do full body measurements again at end of month just get into a schedule of doing it at end of month, and I measured 43 on the chest. Didn't believe it, did it a few more times, checked later, checked this morning... my chest just grew half an inch in a matter of like, a few days. With no sign of doing so before it happened. Their shape did become a bit more triangular and projected, instead of being the bit more round they were before, but... they're still bigger.

Pretty sure it was from the tinctures and msm, might have been from doing hiit for the first time in months, could have been drinking more milk fats, but either way my chest has gotten even more sore as of late. Still not as bad as when I was first growing, but definitely notable. I'm at a bit of a loss as to where that random growth spurt came from, but hey, it means something in this plan is working. May be my body finally adjusting to it all.

[Siman234]

Wuff, alright, this is gonna be another big ramble to try to rationalize my thoughts more than an update.

I've been very, very happy recently. From body image to my overall mood, I feel great right now. I admit, I'm a bit conflicted with thinking about things to try going forward, I am for, probably the first time in my life, very happy with my body. I still want to push farther, and I'm still looking to, but at the moment, I'm on this routine I have to let play out.

I've moved to 4mg as I realized I had enough estrogen to make it until new years doing so, brings me up to standard dosage, and I'm deeply tempted by noogleberry at the moment. My current knowledge of it seems to imply that I can use it at any point in transitioning? MeganJ seemed to have great results 3-4 years into HRT. But I've also never had as much free time in my life as I've had now, and I feel now would be the best time to get into noogling. I'm just trying to look through accessories, get a plan, and figure it all out. The airlock seems required, the XXL cups also seem required for my size, and the pressure gauge too, have to figure out how to get it here in secret and hide it as well... but I'm very tempted. If it can add a cup or two and help with growth from the estrogens... I want it.

Progesterone is still on the mind, but I'm planning on trying doing that in around 8 months time.

Just another ramble today, nothing has changed yet.

Welp, take that back, was going to send this, but decided to try a measurement just for kicks and giggles... and my chest is 44 inches today ? ? !? ? ?! I did massage a lot this morning, but a whole extra inch??? I put a bra on real quick just to see if I was insane or not, there isn't any volume increase, my D cup bra still fits just fine, and after I took it off it reset to 43... for a bit, before projecting back out to 44. Either from the massaging or me just changing my dosage up again, I got an inch of puffy projection that hasn't been there been there before. I've measured after massaging before... but this still might be part of massage swelling... but still... either way, it's crazy to see how responsive the chest is to stimuli.

That settles it, I need a noogle.

[HelloDiDi]

Would you be interested in posting some pictures? I would love to see your progress.