[julieTG]

Jami

Hit nail head there

No bull shit

Just be honest and slow

She needs you to show trust and full communication

Her mind is imagining all sorts of things

Also women's acceptance wanes and waxes and even can reverse against things they encouraged at one stage

Slow, slow, slow and lots of love to her and both

Julie

[Sofia Bunny]

Dear Fire

I have been following your posts and hadn't intended to comment as it seems you had a good dialogue going with others here. But reading this post broke my heart and I just have to say something.

Firstly, you have no need to apologise. We may be geographically spread around the world but we truly are just the other side of the computer screen too. YOU... ARE... NOT... ALONE.

Secondly, HUG! And not just a polite and very British touch and release. A full blown wrapping of the arms, getting squished together and never letting go hug! I mean it too! :-) They don't call me Huggy for nothing you know ;-)

The problem is that when you are in the middle of the maelstrom it's so hard to see a way out. And one thing is sure, you are in the middle of a storm! But storms do eventually calm. I promise, they really do :-)

I have spent the entire morning writing and re-writing what to say next. Some of it was really good too! ;-) But I suspect what you need most of all at the moment is not advice but to simply know that you are not mad! You may be coping with crazy stuff but you are not mad. And you are not alone... there are many many others that have gone through and are going through similar agonies. And as far away as this idea may seem right now, things do work out.

You clearly love you wife and by the way you describe how she tried to be sweet to you (eventually) indicates she loves you too? You have spent many years of your life with her, and I am sure faced many battles side by side just to stay together. That in itself is precious and in today's world rather rare.

The fact she eventually responded seems to say that she hasn't given up, and I suspect you are right, she doesn't understand. But it is at least a foundation, a basis to build upon? I hesitate to advise, but perhaps when things are calmer it may be time to begin "that" conversation? It won't be just one chat but honest dialogue has to start somewhere?

Actually, I do have a suggestion. You have many friends here, why not practice what you want to say with one of us? Prepare yourself. Practice just how would be the best way to help her understand you? Perhaps in helping her understand, you may be able to help you understand yourself too? I am sure I speak for many here that we would feel greatly privileged to pm with you if you thought it would help.

And finally HUG!!!! Lotsa HUGGS! Big ones little ones and everything in between :-)

Huggy.

Thank you Huggy! And thank you for the many hugs, sometimes they really are the best things in life. My wife and I seem to have a bit of love/hate going on. We've known each other for so long now, not sure if either of us can change. It is not from lack of trying or communication, I think it's just embedded learned behavior. Apparently we both come from a family of shouters. Different being, my parents in the end respected each other in front of others and in front of us. Her parents, not so much. They insult one another, even in front of company, and will talk down to another in a most uncomfortable way.

I am passive by nature, yelling, and shouting goes against my grain, and makes me feel absolutely ugly inside. Unfortunately, I have adapted into this to be able to match what's being dealt to me, and in order to survive. I used to try and communicate calmly and passively, but it seemed to fuel and enrage her further. Before you ask, yes, I have communicated that I do not like her tone of voice with me, I have communicated with her that I do not like how she will talk down to me, I have communicated a lot with her, and we have gone to therapy, but it continues. She has the patience the size of a gnat, and with two rambunctions boys, it's even less now. She disagrees, she doesn't see it, but I do... I see it directed at me, and I see it directed at my boys.

Of course you know there are two sides of the argument, and I know I am no angel. I have plenty of faults and issues and I try and work on them as best I can, but sometimes it feels like what's the point. Many times no matter what I do or try, I still get flack, so what's the point in trying? Again, believe me, I have communicated this... over... and over... and OVER again. One thing I have learned about myself as of late, the changes I am going through is tapping into my origins. The sweet, respectful younger me, a part of me I thought long gone. I just have so much crap I have to undo, but I have seen it, felt it... it is there buried inside and it is time I refocus my energy on that, bring forth what I once was. I think that will help me in becoming whole again.

Wow, sorry Huggy, seems I may have gotten a bit long winded here. I appreciate the hugs tremendously, and the offer for help, it truly means a lot.

[Sofia Bunny]

Sophia!
Your not alone with your feelings and your troubles for sure.
Just a couple of things:

Have you taken the SAGE test or one of the other gender tests?
For me this was a life saver, It told me that I need both male and female parts in my life to make me happy, and it has been very true. And a grat relief that Bob and Bobbi can live happily ever after in the same body.

It might be a good time to look for a gender therapist and have a chat about whats going on. And then get your wife to go.
Unfortunately This is not a condition that will ever go away. Be it crosdressing, or Transexual, its here to stay, so it must be dealt with.

You need a friend to talk with and we are all here to support you, however the friend you really need is your wife. Once she is on board or at least understands then there is a great load released. Trust me on that one.
Lastly you said in your post:
"I understand her, I know her inside and out. Because that's what I do. I observe and learn. I'm pretty good and picking things apart, it's probably what makes me pretty good at my job. But after all these years, she still hasn't bothered to learn me."

So use those skills that your good at and pick yourself apart. Its not as easy as it sounds, but give it a shot,
Lots of Hugs
Bobbi

(((((((((((((((((((((((Sophia)))))))))))))))))))))))

Thank you Bobbi, no I have not taken any gender tests. I guess perhaps it is something I should look into. Perhaps it will help reveal a little bit more about myself. I really need to figure myself out as much as I can so I can proceed in the right direction, and course of action.

As for the picking myself apart... I do that on a daily basis, and believe me it is not pretty. When I tear myself apart too deeply I end up unearthing troubling things. Perhaps which is what lead to my most recent outburst. I have so many personas that I have to reconcile from years and years of building up my walls and defenses to ensure my safety and sanity, but as I mentioned, I see the light, I see me, just a matter of time and patience to whittle away the garbage built around it.

Thanks again Bobbi, I greatly appreciate your input and help!

[Sofia Bunny]

Fire

I see a lot of myself in your post, especially tired of the facade of blending in and worrying about everyone else's thoughts/feelings. Even my relationship seems to have similar ground.

I don't think I can offer any advice as I don't particularly feel as though my relationship will survive, only making inches of progress when there's miles to go. You know your partner best; how she learns and understands new information. What are her unspoken fears, concerns, and questions?

I can only offer my love, support, and understanding. But I'd like to also leave a list of links to sites covering relationships and partners.

I don't know if these links will help or not but they offer some different perspectives, questions, and insights. I'm also not sure of how you identify. Most of these articles are trans specific, I believe they may still offer some insights and helpful info.

I wish you the best and I hope everything works for the best!

Caution: Lots of reading ahead.

Transgender Universe: Can We Talk?

Transgender Universe: Her Side

Mom with trans-daughter and now trans-wife, says her marriage has never been better.

My Trans Partner

TransCentral: For Partners & Significant Others

First Time, Second Time: Thoughts for Partners

Crossdreamers: Resources for Partners

My partner/ boyfriend is transgender (Mtf). So what now?

Trans Partner Project

My Partner is Trans

Spouses of Trans Support Group

HRC Resources for Partners

Laura's Playground: Partners' Support Articles

Fetlife: Groups and Info for Partners

Sister House: Wives Speak Out -- (TRIGGER WARNING FOR SOME LETTERS)

GenderCentre: Trans Person in Your Life


PS: Group HUGS!!!! \o/

Mmm, dare I say it and risk it fading away? Yes, I shall, I have a smile on my face and I feel warmth in my heart. Thank you so much for your insight into all of this madness, I appreciate it tremendously. I have a long flight tomorrow, and perhaps I need to click all of these links and mark them all for off line reading. Or at least pick a few of them that sound potentially most beneficial. Thanks for the hugs, they are radiating, and filling me up with utmost joy.

[Sofia Bunny]

Sophia!

I want to add some sort of support for you feelings, I have been thinking about you all day. I will try later tonight or tomorrow to try and post something for you.

In the meantime, we all love and support you. Please don't feel like you are all alone.

Thank you Jannet, your love and support is filling me up with warmth and joy. I am feeling a loads better. While it would still be nice to know someone with which I could commune with personally, I know that there are many on here that offer their love, support, and of course understanding.

If it ever came to be, a small part of me believes my wife would somewhat accept me, but would go the path of out of sight, out of mind. She would not want to see me in women's clothing or see that feminine part of my nature. So again, sadly, I feel I'll still wish for a like minded friend. For now, the dust is settling, and things are balancing out again.

[Sofia Bunny]

.... So I know that breaking things in little by little and allowing for her to adjust and accept, things will be somewhat okay. Sure, she won't be pleased with my choices, but little by little may somewhat accept the change. Perhaps I am pushing to much too quickly. I just need to tap into my patience and accept that perhaps in time all will be okay.

Not to bust your chops, but wearing her down bit by bit sounds just as disingenuous as pushing her buttons.
I've certainly had the same thoughts, and used that method, at least unconciously... I think what sucks about it is that you are committed to lie, if necessary, to protect your true goal, becausing "minimizing" is sort of required, to get each step closer to what you really want.
Part of it, of course, is that we do that alot to ourselves... we fear, and yet are mesmerized by, a possibility that is truly within our grasp, so we wear ourselves down and take little steps, to bring ourselves closer to something we're barely sharing with ourselves.
Good and bad, we have to face the change we've brought on ourselves and those in our lives.

Doesn't mean there aren't paths where you both end up happy... maybe even happy with each other.

If you truly feel about her in a manner reflected by your post, and she reflective of what you described in her, you may want to consider therapy... but it kinda feels like that barn is already empty.
It may be that she can be talked into "acceptance", but is that all you want? Is that going to make her happy?

If what you want is a healthy committed relationship with someone who completely accepts and embraces who you are and may become, and you want her to be that person, then you could do a lot worse than tell her just that... then you can both figure out what's next together. If she rejects that, then you have an answer -sorry

BTW: I don't fault or judge you, or her... I'm certainly no angel and definitely feel for the both of you. I'm still trying to find my own answers to the above, but I know I'm very lucky in my spouse. She's been great, but won't let me BS my way through. I would certainly benefit much from listening to my own words.

-j

Yes, I love my wife, and accept her for who she is, and all her faults and flaws. As I mentioned, I know her very well, possibly better than she knows herself. And as disingenuous as it may appear, I know right now, she cannot handle it. I have to reveal everything in chapters like a book, instead of exposing everything at once like in a movie scene. Too much too quickly quick potentially be VERY disastrous. I know what would make her happy, to make her happy would mean my unhappiness, but she would be happy. We may each have to give and take a little bit in order to find that middle ground where we will both be happy. It's not going to be easy, but I believe it to be doable. It is just going to take time. Thank you Jami very much for your thoughts and insight on all of this, I appreciate it very much!

[Sofia Bunny]

Jami

Hit nail head there

No bull shit

Just be honest and slow

She needs you to show trust and full communication

Her mind is imagining all sorts of things

Also women's acceptance wanes and waxes and even can reverse against things they encouraged at one stage

Slow, slow, slow and lots of love to her and both

Julie

I am going slow and cautiously. I have been a lot more open about choice of undergarments, and while she is not too happy about my decisions, she is a bit more accepting of it. I wish it could be more of a bandaid approach and just rip it off, I just know that for her, it would be a lot more difficult to process, and the end results could prove to be quite ugly.

[Happyme]

Hi Sophia,
I am so glad you are sounding much perkier!
Here is a link to SAGE and gender tests:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=20243&highlight=gender+test

I'm sure there is something in here.
Some of the SAGE tests are written in an old DOS format and dont function well with modern Apple, Unix or windows machines.
Best wishes to you. Keep smiling
Bobbi

[Mickie]

I am sorry that I missed the start of this thread Fire... but you do sound a little more 'up'... Ours can be a very difficult journey.. society expect so much from us.. and it , many times, is not what we want of expect for ourselves.

It is old, and well worn, but there is a saying that applies to us, as a group, more than to most others. 'To thine own self be true'.. and it certainly does apply.

Take care.. I wish only the best for you. and even though we may be unable to be there in person , we are with you in spirit

[jannet.duff]

Sophia,

I will just say a few things from my perspective, they may or may not have any bearing on your particular problems.

I will probably touch on a few things already mentioned, but here we go.
I think its fair to say, although your SO seemed to flip out on the panties, I can almost guarantee the panties were not really the issue. The panties are a small thing, on top of everything else that is going on.

Our wives see the person they married slipping away. Yes, I know we redefine ourselves every few years, we are never the same person we were when we were teenagers. We change slowly over time, as do everyone else around us. We never notice those changes in ourselves, we hardly even notice those changes in others. But, the changes we ( as a group ) are going through end up being much faster and much more noticeable. For some, a slight feminine look, a softening of the rough edges is enough to quell the feeling. For others ( I am looking in my mirror here ) they need more. As we change, we feel more content, but our wifes ( unless we are very very lucky ) tend to go the other way. She will see her MAN being stolen by another woman, the problem is that women is her MAN. She is in turmoil, she still loves you, but wants so much to hate the woman you are becoming. If your already in a volatile relationship, this is going to make things even worse. Some times the pink fog consumes us, it ends up being a full steam ahead, because the feeling we get looking at our feminine selves causes us so much calm, we end up missing all the danger signs from our wives, until its just a pair of panties that causes a melt down.

I don't believe you mentioned if you had showed you wife the makeover pictures or not, but I know from personal experience that although my wife picked out my first set of clothes, my underwear, my shoes, and suggested a lady to help me with my makeup, she still had a melt down the first time I went to my support meeting as Jannet. In her words, the person she married ceased to exist when she finally saw Jannet.

Can you put Sophia away ? I am sure you can manage quite well for a few weeks, maybe a few months, but there is a chance this will eat you away from the inside. What I would suggest is that you slow down, give your wife time to catch up with your changes. ( The old saying " its far easier to boil a frog if you start the water cold and slowly heat it up, than it is to just drop the frog in a pot of boiling water." Springs to mind )

Does this work for everybody ? I cannot answer that. Only you can judge how things are progressing in your life. I know at times going slow will feel like its too slow ( for you ) but your wife will think your still going too fast.

One thing to keep reminding yourself ( I have to do this all the time ) when you have a disagreement, what is it over ? If its over Sophia, you really have to give her a little traction on that, going into a full blown argument over Sophia is not going to help either you or her.

Will she leave you if you continue, will you be able to live with your self if you don't, those are only questions that can be answered with time. Its almost 3 years since I came out to my wife, just after our 25th anniversary, ( timing was never my strong point ) I was not expecting to last the week, but here we are. Will we stay together ? Its hard to say, but we will try and last as long as we can.

Keep thinking positive, things are never as bad as they first seem. If she really hated you that much then she would be gone already. Remember, no matter how far you eventually go, nothing says you have to present as Sophia full time.

One thought, Do your kids know about Sophia ? If not, you may want to consider how you are going to tell them. ( I told my teenage boys 18 months ago, I am still Dad to them )

I know you do not seem interested in a support group, but you do not have to join one as Sophia, there are a few in our group who show up in drab, not everybody is ready to show the world the person we feel inside.

If you need somebody to messenger with one on one, I can send you my face book email.

Hang on in there and keep thinking happy thoughts.