[flamesabers]

Hello,

After spending some time in the chatroom and privately conversing with various members, I would like to speak my mind on what has transpired over the last few days. Rereading Lotus' thread on "What happened to NBE" has helped me gain a better understanding of what is going on. I still stand by the statements I made in that thread:

I'm against having a separate section for synthetics. I would rather not see the board get divided up into the herbs and HRT group. If there was a separate section, consider how many active members solely use herbs or synthetics. I for example wouldn't probably venture much into a synthetics forum on the simple basis I don't use them. I think the same could be said for those who strictly use synthetics.

I think a reason why the gender identity forum has worked so well is because the vast majority of bio-males pursuing NBE are also transgender to some extent. I doubt a synthetics section could be integrated this successfully. If we do have a synthetics section, what would follow? Would we go on to create a separate picture and program section for synthetics?

Separation in some areas are very practical I think, such as having a separate section for bio-males. Females and males typically have distinctly different hormone levels, starting points for NBE, expectations, etc. I don't see such a noticeable difference for herbs and synthetics.

Lotus,

I'm not quite following your opinion with this thread. Are you saying you don't want synthetics discussed at all on this forum? Are you asking about whether a sub-forum for synthetics should be created? Or are you suggesting more caution should be emphasized about the risks of using synthetics?

I'm fine with synthetics being discussed here. Considering there is a sub-forum for breast implants and other surgery, I don't think there is a good case to ban the discussion of synthetics on the basis it doesn't fall in line with the name of this site. As a bio-male, I see this site (at least the bio-male section) as being an unofficial transgender forum. I would rather have synthetics being discussed freely than see this site turn into an anti-HRT place as a number of users have reported Susan's being anti-herbal. If we really wanted to go into the nitty-gritty, I think one could make the case that it's unnatural for males to develop breast tissue beyond tanner stage 1. I prefer this site be inclusive rather than exclusive for those who are pursuing breast development or enhancement.

On the second point, I have doubts about creating a sub-forum for synthetics. A number of members use both herbs and synthetics, so it could get complicated about what should be posted and where.

On the third point, I think newbies should be cautioned about the risks, physically, socially, etc. about pursuing NBE whether it's with herbs or synthetics. I think others and myself have performed a decent job with executing this responsibility. You yourself have created a number of FAQ threads that address the side-effects and other issues that may result from pursuing NBE. As much as we can try to educate and help others, I think everyone still has a duty to assume some self-responsibility for what they choose to put in or on their bodies.

I really enjoy being a part of this forum and sharing and learning with all of you. I don't want to see all of this end by a debate of herbs vs. synthetics or "men w/breasts vs. transitioning transsexuals."

I still want to help newbies and others find their way with breast development, whether it be with herbs, synthetics or a combination of both. I like sharing my thoughts and experiences with gender.

I don't want to see this board torn apart.

Sincerely,

flamesabers

[Lenneth]

I don't think it was your fault flame, from what I gather some people simply misunderstood things and one thing leading to another the entire thing snowballed to the size of a building before most realized what was going on..

[andrea23]

I agree I did not find your post upsetting flame the board has change some for bad some for good. Things just got out of hand really fast. I am also sorry for my post if I ruffled any feathers I apologize.
Andrea23

[Robbin]

Flame you are like part of the foundation that helps hold this place together .
we should all work together everybody has feelings that is what really counts.
We should not be segregated into sections because every one's path is diffrent
But without guidance we are all lost. we can keep on leaving when things are not going the way we want it. We need pull together and learn from each other.
Do develop who we truly are inside each one of us.

[AnnieBL]

Amen.

[EvaMarie]

Im still trying to figure out how all this drama came about

I mean really??? Should it come as a big shock that there will be some here that want to go all the way with full transition???

"Breast growth for biological males" Just think about that.... So how many "MEN" would you expect to be hanging out here???

Yet there are some here I could never quite figure out... For me personally I cant understand why a "man" who wants to present himself as male would also want to grow feminine breasts....

BUT to each his or her own I say I get it that not everyone here wants to or can fully transition...

"Natural breast enhancement" I didnt see anywhere where it said "Herbal breast enhancement"....

Bio identical "synthetic" human female sex hormones, E2 and P, this is as pure and "natural" as it gets right Difference is the AA used, "syn" HRT being much more effective at zeroing T and "NBE" seemingly actually using T to convert to the female sex hormone E2, "naturally"... Either way Im under the impression that estrogen is what makes tits grow on humans...

I also dont get what the big deal is about having a few subforums to keep things organized.... Its not that hard to to navigate

Sorry to see anyone here go because I enjoy reading just about everyone's posts and following their progress...

So I say put on your big boy or girls undies and suck it up buttercups

[spanky]

Once peace is sincerely requested, what can one do but welcome it? A little mending is all that is needed. Thank you.

[❇ Abby ❇]

Im still trying to figure out how all this drama came about

I mean really??? Should it come as a big shock that there will be some here that want to go all the way with full transition???

"Breast growth for biological males" Just think about that.... So how many "MEN" would you expect to be hanging out here???

Yet there are some here I could never quite figure out... For me personally I cant understand why a "man" who wants to present himself as male would also want to grow feminine breasts....

BUT to each his or her own I say I get it that not everyone here wants to or can fully transition...

"Natural breast enhancement" I didnt see anywhere where it said "Herbal breast enhancement"....

Bio identical "synthetic" human female sex hormones, E2 and P, this is as pure and "natural" as it gets right Difference is the AA used, "syn" HRT being much more effective at zeroing T and "NBE" seemingly actually using T to convert to the female sex hormone E2, "naturally"... Either way Im under the impression that estrogen is what makes tits grow on humans...

I also dont get what the big deal is about having a few subforums to keep things organized.... Its not that hard to to navigate

Sorry to see anyone here go because I enjoy reading just about everyone's posts and following their progress...

So I say put on your big boy or girls undies and suck it up buttercups

Totally agree with you EvaMarie.

[SarahSchilling]

Many of us have felt excluded from society our entire lives. Should it come as a surprise to anyone that the fact some members want to exclude us from EVEN this site may lead to some feelings being hurt?

In addition to that, many of us are on hormones, which tend to increase the intensity which with feelings are felt. It should come as no shock that members are both hurt and angry over being treated this way. If I wasn't so stubborn, I would've left the forum myself.

Telling TG women to "man up" is rather odd to me. Not that I have anything against you, Eva. It's simply a sentiment which I do not share in this case. This site lost some of its most valuable and nicest members for no good reason, and to suggest their feelings aren't valid is callous of you. This side of the site should be a safe haven for bio-males who wish to grow breasts, regardless of their methods or lifestyle choices, imo. To each their own, though.

We have peace now, but it's not going to be a lasting one.

[EvaMarie]

Many of us have felt excluded from society our entire lives. Should it come as a surprise to anyone that the fact some members want to exclude us from EVEN this site may lead to some feelings being hurt?

In addition to that, many of us are on hormones, which tend to increase the intensity which with feelings are felt. It should come as no shock that members are both hurt and angry over being treated this way. If I wasn't so stubborn, I would've left the forum myself.

Telling TG women to "man up" is rather odd to me. Not that I have anything against you, Eva. It's simply a sentiment which I do not share in this case. This site lost some of its most valuable and nicest members for no good reason, and to suggest their feelings aren't valid is callous of you. This side of the site should be a safe haven for bio-males who wish to grow breasts, regardless of their methods or lifestyle choices, imo. To each their own, though.

We have peace now, but it's not going to be a lasting one.

Well Im sorry if that seemed callous or what ever and It wasnt my intention to dismiss anyone's feelings at all...

I think its safe to say I understand what it's like to be on HRT, and Ive had my moments

I think you, myself and a lot of the others here would have a hard time "manning up" now

I just dont get all the drama I guess, I mean it's the internet after all.... I get all the camaraderie and support and all of that for such a serious issue like GD, but it all just seems trivial to me compared to what I deal with in real life I guess....

Maybe its just me though, Ive always been a very self centered person who preferred to go it alone mostly anyway...

Not trying to be a bitch but thats my thoughts on all of this and I stand by them...