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Project X (hrt)
Greetings, 

I posted this study in 2015 to show the importance of having progesterone in your program. The takeaway here is that without progesterone while taking estradiol and anti-androgen breasts don't mature. Meaning the alveoli, breast ducts and breast buds don't develop to tanner stage 5 potential. 

In another study an assay of human male hormone receptors in breast tissue found the following (and this in regards to each being equal to 100%, not the total of the three being @ 100%, follow?).

Breasts
Estrogen receptors @ 94%
Progesterone receptors @ 93%
Androgen receptors @ 57%

So, in human male testes we have the following productions:

Testes 
Testosterone @ 85%
Estradiol @ 15%

Anti-androgens inhibit T/DHT between 30-90%. When T is lowered to 50ng/dL and below its considered chemical castration. 

So this is how my thinking goes:

Use progesterone cream to reduce T/DHT in breast tissue. 

And in the testes reduce that testosterone of 85% to 5 to 10% using an effective anti-androgen that inhibits @ 80%. 

Simple, right?. I believe one could tweak these numbers to how they wish to proceed. Meaning some don't want breast development while others do. We just massage these numbers to create a small imbalance favoring feminization but no breast development, I would do that by just using progesterone cream on the breast...no PM (or estradiol) and an anti-androgen titrated to 45-50% or flip the script geared towards breast growth, and titrate even more for the full feminization. 


(25-09-2015, 01:36 AM)Lotus Wrote: Short-term and long-term histologic effects of castration and estrogen treatment on breast tissue of 14 male-to-female transsexuals in comparison with two chemically castrated men.
Kanhai RC1, Hage JJ, van Diest PJ, Bloemena E, Mulder JW.
Author information
Abstract
The histologic changes induced in the mammary gland of male-to-female transsexuals have not yet been reported in the literature. We studied the histologic changes induced by chemical and surgical castration and estrogen therapy in the breasts of 14 such patients, with particular reference to acinar and lobular formation. To objectify the influence of cross-sex treatment, the histologic findings were compared with those in two men treated hormonally for prostate cancer. The slight increase in the plasma estrogen-to-androgen ratio seen in idiopathic gynecomastia usually does not induce acinar and lobular formation in the male breast. In men treated with nonprogestative antiandrogens for prostate cancer, only moderate acinar and lobular formation occurs. Only in male-to-female transsexuals in whom progestative chemical castration is combined with feminizing estrogen therapy will full acinar and lobular formation occur with hormonally stimulated nuclei and pseudolactational changes. Hence, combined progestative antiandrogens and estrogens are necessary for genetically male breast tissue to mimic the natural histology of the female breast. Orchidectomy does not contribute to this. Apocrine metaplasia may occur in breasts of male-to-female transsexuals, but so far, only four cases of breast cancer in male-to-female transsexuals have been documented.

Here's the full paper, or view the PDF as listed on the site. 
http://journals.lww.com/ajsp/Fulltext/20..._of.9.aspx

 Reply
(19-02-2021, 07:55 AM)Lotus Wrote: Greetings, 

I posted this study in 2015 to show the importance of having progesterone in your program. The takeaway here is that without progesterone while taking estradiol and anti-androgen breasts don't mature. Meaning the alveoli, breast ducts and breast buds don't develop to tanner stage 5 potential. 

In another study an assay of human male hormone receptors in breast tissue found the following (and this in regards to each being equal to 100%, not the total of the three being @ 100%, follow?).

Breasts
Estrogen receptors @ 94%
Progesterone receptors @ 93%
Androgen receptors @ 57%

So, in human male testes we have the following productions:

Testes 
Testosterone @ 85%
Estradiol @ 15%

Anti-androgens inhibit T/DHT between 30-90%. When T is lowered to 50ng/dL and below its considered chemical castration. 

So this is how my thinking goes:

Use progesterone cream to reduce T/DHT in breast tissue. 

And in the testes reduce that testosterone of 85% to 5 to 10% using an effective anti-androgen that inhibits @ 80%. 

Simple, right?. I believe one could tweak these numbers to how they wish to proceed. Meaning some don't want breast development while others do. We just massage these numbers to create a small imbalance favoring feminization but no breast development, I would do that by just using progesterone cream on the breast...no PM (or estradiol) and an anti-androgen titrated to 45-50% or flip the script geared towards breast growth, and titrate even more for the full feminization. 


(25-09-2015, 01:36 AM)Lotus Wrote: Short-term and long-term histologic effects of castration and estrogen treatment on breast tissue of 14 male-to-female transsexuals in comparison with two chemically castrated men.
Kanhai RC1, Hage JJ, van Diest PJ, Bloemena E, Mulder JW.
Author information
Abstract
The histologic changes induced in the mammary gland of male-to-female transsexuals have not yet been reported in the literature. We studied the histologic changes induced by chemical and surgical castration and estrogen therapy in the breasts of 14 such patients, with particular reference to acinar and lobular formation. To objectify the influence of cross-sex treatment, the histologic findings were compared with those in two men treated hormonally for prostate cancer. The slight increase in the plasma estrogen-to-androgen ratio seen in idiopathic gynecomastia usually does not induce acinar and lobular formation in the male breast. In men treated with nonprogestative antiandrogens for prostate cancer, only moderate acinar and lobular formation occurs. Only in male-to-female transsexuals in whom progestative chemical castration is combined with feminizing estrogen therapy will full acinar and lobular formation occur with hormonally stimulated nuclei and pseudolactational changes. Hence, combined progestative antiandrogens and estrogens are necessary for genetically male breast tissue to mimic the natural histology of the female breast. Orchidectomy does not contribute to this. Apocrine metaplasia may occur in breasts of male-to-female transsexuals, but so far, only four cases of breast cancer in male-to-female transsexuals have been documented.

Here's the full paper, or view the PDF as listed on the site. 
http://journals.lww.com/ajsp/Fulltext/20..._of.9.aspx



Hello Lotus, very interesting. Smile I added PC to my program recently, using every three days or so... But you keep mentioning the importance of anti-androgen time and again... What about those who have got fantastic results without it? I'm wondering if I should add in reishi like you suggested some time ago? So far I've done well without, but would that kick everything in high gear?
 Reply
What a lovely word:
titrated

I'll have to add that to my repertoire
Thanks
Bobbi
 Reply
Hi Didi, 

I do think it would kick things in high gear, and here's why: Testosterone/DHT are produced in the following tissues

  1. Liver
  2. Prostate 
  3. Adrenal gland 
  4. Breasts 
  5. Testes
  6. Brain
  7. Blood
  8. Hypothalamus 
  9. Skin
  10.  Hair
  11. Did I miss one?
I listed the percentages on a few of those in post #4321. T/DHT keeps estradiol low as long it's in control. And we know this from blood tests (which you should get, @blood test for hormones). When you displace DHT from SHBG the script is flipped, meaning estradiol is in control keeping androgens low and estrogen high. In this latter scenario feminizing gets easier. This is pretty cool, the brain can make its own estradiol...in this respect one could expect a certain amount of brain feminization, but not until androgens are inhibited...thus the need for anti-androgens. We're just changing the T/E ratio in our favor.

In cis-females they need testosterone (derived in the brain) in order to get frisky, lol. Though, a cis-females with high androgens to begin with don't need more T, they need less of it..
 Reply
(21-02-2021, 05:47 AM)Lotus Wrote: Hi Didi, 

I do think it would kick things in high gear, and here's why: Testosterone/DHT are produced in the following tissues

  1. Liver
  2. Prostate 
  3. Adrenal gland 
  4. Breasts 
  5. Testes
  6. Brain
  7. Blood
  8. Hypothalamus 
  9. Skin
  10.  Hair
  11. Did I miss one?
I listed the percentages on a few of those in post #4321. T/DHT keeps estradiol low as long it's in control. And we know this from blood tests (which you should get, @blood test for hormones). When you displace DHT from SHBG the script is flipped, meaning estradiol is in control keeping androgens low and estrogen high. In this latter scenario feminizing gets easier. This is pretty cool, the brain can make its own estradiol...in this respect one could expect a certain amount of brain feminization, but not until androgens are inhibited...thus the need for anti-androgens. We're just changing the T/E ratio in our favor.

In cis-females they need testosterone (derived in the brain) in order to get frisky, lol. Though, a cis-females with high androgens to begin with don't need more T, they need less of it..


Ok, payday and ordering reishi here I come. Big Grin
 Reply

Heya Lotus

I seen you mention that you put reishi powder in you morning coffee; is the most cost effective way you've found to use it?

I too have a bag of reishi powder and made myself a vegetable glycerin based extraction however i personally think the commercial alcohol brand i previously used was better as (apologies if tmi) i could smell it in my urine however it got popular and therefore price has skyrocketed. Plus my hair still growing quickly and thick using my diy reishi. Our alcohol for sale here is low percentage compared with US so I'd say I'd be wasting my time hence why i  tried vegie glycerin.


Also read that you need to process the reishi to break down cell walls to make nutrients available; what's your opinion on this? And does simply putting it in a hot coffee do this?


Also normal green tea vs matcha; i liked and drank matcha however then there were supply issues so swapped to regular green tea and i feel matcha was better; opinion?


Bonny x






 Reply
(19-02-2021, 04:12 PM)Happyme Wrote: What a lovely word:
titrated

I'll have to add that to my repertoire
Thanks
Bobbi


I'm always happy when you're happy Boobie, @ Happyme.  Tongue
 Reply
(21-02-2021, 08:13 AM)HelloDiDi Wrote: Ok, payday and ordering reishi here I come. Big Grin


Awesome, I can't wait to see how it works out for you.
 Reply
(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote:

Heya Lotus

I seen you mention that you put reishi powder in you morning coffee; is the most cost effective way you've found to use it?




Hi Bonny, so good to hear from you again.

Two ways I like to take Reishi, 
  1. 1 scoop in daily coffee
  2. 1 scoop in hot dark cacao (yummy) 
I've read people use reishi in smoothies, or tea. 

(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote:

I too have a bag of reishi powder and made myself a vegetable glycerin based extraction however i personally think the commercial alcohol brand i previously used was better as (apologies if tmi) i could smell it in my urine however it got popular and therefore price has skyrocketed. Plus my hair still growing quickly and thick using my diy reishi. Our alcohol for sale here is low percentage compared with US so I'd say I'd be wasting my time hence why i  tried vegie 




I understand about skyrocketing prices. What did you use to make your vegetable glycerin with?. 0lno, 

(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote: glycerin.


Also read that you need to process the reishi to break down cell walls to make nutrients available; what's your opinion on this? 




You're referring to the chitin, this is how they break it down.
Quote:Mushroom Science 
Hot water extraction dissolves the indigestible fiber (chitin), allowing the fiber to be removed from the extract when the water is removed. This process concentrates the polysaccharides to the effective levels identified in the published research.
https://mushroomscience.com/hot-water-extracted/


(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote: And does simply putting it in a hot coffee do this?



No, it's already done by the manufacturer. 

(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote:


Also normal green tea vs matcha; i liked and drank matcha however then there were supply issues so swapped to regular green tea and i feel matcha was better; opinion?


Bonny x









Matcha tea is 2-3x stronger than regular green tea. With regular green tea the quality is questionable. I agree, the matcha is better, plus you'll only consume 2-5 oz. per day because of it being stronger. 
 Reply

(22-02-2021, 08:22 AM)Lotus Wrote:
(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote:

Heya Lotus

I seen you mention that you put reishi powder in you morning coffee; is the most cost effective way you've found to use it?




Hi Bonny, so good to hear from you again.

Two ways I like to take Reishi, 
  1. 1 scoop in daily coffee
  2. 1 scoop in hot dark cacao (yummy) 
I've read people use reishi in smoothies, or tea. 

(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote:

I too have a bag of reishi powder and made myself a vegetable glycerin based extraction however i personally think the commercial alcohol brand i previously used was better as (apologies if tmi) i could smell it in my urine however it got popular and therefore price has skyrocketed. Plus my hair still growing quickly and thick using my diy reishi. Our alcohol for sale here is low percentage compared with US so I'd say I'd be wasting my time hence why i  tried vegie 




I understand about skyrocketing prices. What did you use to make your vegetable glycerin with?. 0lno, 

(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote: glycerin.


Also read that you need to process the reishi to break down cell walls to make nutrients available; what's your opinion on this? 




You're referring to the chitin, this is how they break it down.
Quote:Mushroom Science 
Hot water extraction dissolves the indigestible fiber (chitin), allowing the fiber to be removed from the extract when the water is removed. This process concentrates the polysaccharides to the effective levels identified in the published research.
https://mushroomscience.com/hot-water-extracted/


(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote: And does simply putting it in a hot coffee do this?



No, it's already done by the manufacturer. 

(21-02-2021, 09:54 PM)Bonny2.0 Wrote:


Also normal green tea vs matcha; i liked and drank matcha however then there were supply issues so swapped to regular green tea and i feel matcha was better; opinion?


Bonny x









Matcha tea is 2-3x stronger than regular green tea. With regular green tea the quality is questionable. I agree, the matcha is better, plus you'll only consume 2-5 oz. per day because of it being stronger. 

So, funny story, i decided to splurge on a bit of matcha green tea powder while at a Trader  Joe's, not knowing it was good for NBE (outside of just green tea in general). However, I already take GTE, so if i were to switch over to matcha, would that be more or less effective? Perhaps the same?

-Dru

 Reply
 

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