[Lotus]

uuuum growing boobs is an absolute feminine act.. we don't just want the boobs to jiggle and wobble, we want them to affirm our femininity,  am getting bitchy again I think, go offline drew.

Perhaps you misread my post. We're in agreement.

I will have to respectfully disagree. There is plenty of room for those that want to grow breasts as males (that's kind of the heading of this entire forum).

Some to express femininity, some for some other aim (each equally valid).

Have to be careful with the use of "we" when it comes to the variety of aims of others.

I agree with both positions (of Nipply, Drew and Verge) . Thinking of how many groups we serve here is mind boggling. For myself I was in two sub-groups, 1st was MSM (male staying male), then it shifted to HRT. 

My therapist asked me how I define my transition, I'll skip explaining my response because it's listed in this thread. However, if we ask ourselves a similar question of how we define our reason(s) for breast growth (here at BN), we might be surprised what we'll learn...someone (anyone) should make a new thread on the topic.

[Bonny2.0]

Hey Lotus

Super interested in your updated nbe plan and what it looks like nowadays, I've followed along for a while and know you've moved with your research so some of the stuff in your old list (above) is no more or changed. Thanks Bonny

[Steffy Anne]

Yes Lotus, Please update this Lotus, and when you get a chance to, can you also give us an updated list of Aromaste and SHBG stimulators.

   Thanks,

  Steffy Anne

[Lotus]

Hi Bonny and Steffy Anne, I will put out some new (updated) guides ASAP.

[Lotus]

Gonna Bump this post. Apologies but I'm working On the new Guide, either later tonight or tomorrow,  I think (hope) it addresses new issues and new tech.

Perhaps some have seen the following information on reddit(?). If not it's a compilation of breast measuring tools. Of interest to myself are two measuring techniques.

1. Breast Hemicircumference
   
2. Breast units
   

Now the hemicircumference is measured across (3 to 6 o'clock) your breasts...this gives you cup size.

The second is measured (in centimeters) from 3 to 6 o'clock and from 12 to 6 o'clock. This tool can tell you if your breasts are growing, and not just on width but horizontal too. And these two numbers are multiplied. To bad the graph doesn't show adult boobage numbers, I haven't been able to find such chart. Maybe we can make our own here?.

These are my numbers as of last week:
R 33x23=759
L 31x23=713...a difference of 46.

This measuring tool will tell you if you have asymmetry (one breast is larger or smaller than the other).

Perhaps someone would like to create a new thread for folks to share their data. And if one of their breasts are asymmetric we hopefully help overcome this with different techniques.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TransBreastTimelines/comments/f8q2w2/how_to_take_simple_breast_measurements_101/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share



Don't click on the breast unit links...spam ad pops up.

diometres, thanks for the feedback, I'll catch you tomorrow.

[Lotus]

Greetings, 

I posted this study in 2015 to show the importance of having progesterone in your program. The takeaway here is that without progesterone while taking estradiol and anti-androgen breasts don't mature. Meaning the alveoli, breast ducts and breast buds don't develop to tanner stage 5 potential. 

In another study an assay of human male hormone receptors in breast tissue found the following (and this in regards to each being equal to 100%, not the total of the three being @ 100%, follow?).

Breasts
Estrogen receptors @ 94%
Progesterone receptors @ 93%
Androgen receptors @ 57%

So, in human male testes we have the following productions:

Testes 
Testosterone @ 85%
Estradiol @ 15%

Anti-androgens inhibit T/DHT between 30-90%. When T is lowered to 50ng/dL and below its considered chemical castration. 

So this is how my thinking goes:

Use progesterone cream to reduce T/DHT in breast tissue. 

And in the testes reduce that testosterone of 85% to 5 to 10% using an effective anti-androgen that inhibits @ 80%. 

Simple, right?. I believe one could tweak these numbers to how they wish to proceed. Meaning some don't want breast development while others do. We just massage these numbers to create a small imbalance favoring feminization but no breast development, I would do that by just using progesterone cream on the breast...no PM (or estradiol) and an anti-androgen titrated to 45-50% or flip the script geared towards breast growth, and titrate even more for the full feminization. 

Short-term and long-term histologic effects of castration and estrogen treatment on breast tissue of 14 male-to-female transsexuals in comparison with two chemically castrated men.
Kanhai RC1, Hage JJ, van Diest PJ, Bloemena E, Mulder JW.
Author information
Abstract
The histologic changes induced in the mammary gland of male-to-female transsexuals have not yet been reported in the literature. We studied the histologic changes induced by chemical and surgical castration and estrogen therapy in the breasts of 14 such patients, with particular reference to acinar and lobular formation. To objectify the influence of cross-sex treatment, the histologic findings were compared with those in two men treated hormonally for prostate cancer. The slight increase in the plasma estrogen-to-androgen ratio seen in idiopathic gynecomastia usually does not induce acinar and lobular formation in the male breast. In men treated with nonprogestative antiandrogens for prostate cancer, only moderate acinar and lobular formation occurs. Only in male-to-female transsexuals in whom progestative chemical castration is combined with feminizing estrogen therapy will full acinar and lobular formation occur with hormonally stimulated nuclei and pseudolactational changes. Hence, combined progestative antiandrogens and estrogens are necessary for genetically male breast tissue to mimic the natural histology of the female breast. Orchidectomy does not contribute to this. Apocrine metaplasia may occur in breasts of male-to-female transsexuals, but so far, only four cases of breast cancer in male-to-female transsexuals have been documented.

Here's the full paper, or view the PDF as listed on the site. 
http://journals.lww.com/ajsp/Fulltext/20..._of.9.aspx

[HelloDiDi]

Hello Lotus, very interesting. I added PC to my program recently, using every three days or so... But you keep mentioning the importance of anti-androgen time and again... What about those who have got fantastic results without it? I'm wondering if I should add in reishi like you suggested some time ago? So far I've done well without, but would that kick everything in high gear?

[Happyme]

What a lovely word:
titrated

I'll have to add that to my repertoire
Thanks
Bobbi

[Lotus]

Hi Didi, 

I do think it would kick things in high gear, and here's why: Testosterone/DHT are produced in the following tissues

1. Liver
   
2. Prostate 
   
3. Adrenal gland 
   
4. Breasts 
   
5. Testes
   
6. Brain
   
7. Blood
   
8. Hypothalamus 
   
9. Skin
   
10.  Hair
    
11. Did I miss one?
    

I listed the percentages on a few of those in post #4321. T/DHT keeps estradiol low as long it's in control. And we know this from blood tests (which you should get, @blood test for hormones). When you displace DHT from SHBG the script is flipped, meaning estradiol is in control keeping androgens low and estrogen high. In this latter scenario feminizing gets easier. This is pretty cool, the brain can make its own estradiol...in this respect one could expect a certain amount of brain feminization, but not until androgens are inhibited...thus the need for anti-androgens. We're just changing the T/E ratio in our favor.

In cis-females they need testosterone (derived in the brain) in order to get frisky, lol. Though, a cis-females with high androgens to begin with don't need more T, they need less of it..

[HelloDiDi]

Ok, payday and ordering reishi here I come.