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(17-10-2015, 03:25 AM)eloise614 Wrote: I didn't mean to get you going, Lotus 
Okay, well maybe I did 
.
To add onto this: because androstenedione (or, Δ4-dione) can be converted to estrogens, people taking this supplement may have estrogenic side effects.
In addition to its role as a precursor to testosterone in the body, Δ4-dione has slight androgenic properties in its own right, acting as a weak partial agonist of the androgen receptor. However, in the presence of full agonists like testosterone or dihydrotestosterone (DHT), due to its lower intrinsic activity in comparison, it has antagonistic effects, and can behave more like an antiandrogen.
Eloise.
This is fun. When DHT is down-regulated the E2 signal is upregulated, and in this instance, the androstenedione pathway will prevail. In addition, this make androstenedione and DHEA a pure pro-aromatase.
Here's something to ponder: If women can modulate more of their 5ar activity (in ovaries) it could up regulate progesterone, giving way to aromatizable androgens.
Btw, it's nice to see creative thinking, I appreciate that. Especially considering original thinkers have the ability to lead others, they don't need to use other peoples thoughts to express themselves.....
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This sounds all so complicated L. What would you recommend to decrease DHT? Reishi? Or something different? Thank you.
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(17-10-2015, 04:22 AM)peggy Wrote: This sounds all so complicated L. What would you recommend to decrease DHT? Reishi? Or something different? Thank you.
Hi Peggy,
Reishi inhibits DHT @ 80% in the prostate, that's Pharma strength. Less powerful is fatty acids, but still effective. Inhibiting the lutenizing hormone LH looks real promising imo, meaning turning off the androgen signal there (first) would prevent more androgens becoming active.
Black cohosh does that, (shuts of lutenizing hormone) but that also opens the conversion of more E1/E2 synthesis.
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(17-10-2015, 04:36 AM)Lotus Wrote: (17-10-2015, 04:22 AM)peggy Wrote: This sounds all so complicated L. What would you recommend to decrease DHT? Reishi? Or something different? Thank you.
Hi Peggy,
Reishi inhibits DHT @ 80% in the prostate, that's Pharma strength. Less powerful is fatty acids, but still effective. Inhibiting the lutenizing hormone LH looks real promising imo, meaning turning off the androgen signal there (first) would prevent more androgens becoming active.
Black cohosh does that, (shuts of lutenizing hormone) but that also opens the conversion of more E1/E2 synthesis.
It's possible that cyclic adenosine monophosphate or cAMP (like in the supplement Forskollin) could also inhibit LH. But cAMP is also aromatase (3-4 fold).
(cAMP, cyclic AMP, or 3',5'-cyclic adenosine monophosphate) is a second messenger important in many biological processes. cAMP is derived from adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and used for intracellular signal transduction in many different organisms, conveying the cAMP-dependent pathway.
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Reishi has numerous other health benefits as well. Try it on the google machine.
If you want to go the pharma approach, you can even get a little better DHT reduction with dutasteride (such as Avodart) or finadsteride.
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(17-10-2015, 04:36 AM)Lotus Wrote: (17-10-2015, 04:22 AM)peggy Wrote: This sounds all so complicated L. What would you recommend to decrease DHT? Reishi? Or something different? Thank you.
Hi Peggy,
Reishi inhibits DHT @ 80% in the prostate, that's Pharma strength. Less powerful is fatty acids, but still effective. Inhibiting the lutenizing hormone LH looks real promising imo, meaning turning off the androgen signal there (first) would prevent more androgens becoming active.
Black cohosh does that, (shuts of lutenizing hormone) but that also opens the conversion of more E1/E2 synthesis.
And by preventing the androgens from becoming active, these are effectively 'free T' available to be converted? If so, then would a combined usage of reishi and black cohish be good?
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(17-10-2015, 03:19 PM)iaboy Wrote: Google machine?????
You know, one of these!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE3fmFTtP9g
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This is getting deep......should I put Reishi back in the mix? (PM and WPR extract).
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(18-10-2015, 09:38 PM)elainecd Wrote: This is getting deep......should I put Reishi back in the mix? (PM and WPR extract).
Hi Elaine,
Well I look at it this way, do you notice a difference when you take reishi and WP?. I think it's necessary to have an anti-androgen and a pro-aromatase. Or, GnRH therapy that inhibits LH and promotes FSH. I think something like Clomid or DHEA adds another level of possibles to promote FSH synthesis, which up-regulates estrogen in hypogonadal males. Although I wouldn't bottom out T levels, a fish oil capsule a few times a week should up-regulate free T.
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotropin_deficiency
