[Lotus]

It makes you look foolish when you post things that don't help your case.

Foolish is the one who can't do (or find) his own research, foolish is also believing you had something of value to offer other than nonsense.

We shouldn't have to take your word for it.

Never said anybody had too, ask the 88 men in this study below, or the actual "humans" at breast nexus who take it.

I can't find any human data,

There's so much more if you actually looked, (disappointing).


Randomized clinical trial of an ethanol extract of Ganoderma lucidum in men with lower urinary tract symptoms
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18097505

Abstract
To evaluate the safety and efficacy of an extract of Ganoderma lucidum that shows the strongest 5alpha-reductase inhibitory activity among the extracts of 19 edible and medicinal mushrooms by a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized and dose-ranging study in men with lower urinary tract symptoms (LUTS).
METHODS:
In this trial, we randomly assigned 88 men over the age of 49 years who had slight-to-moderate LUTS to 12 weeks of treatment with G. lucidum extract (6 mg once a day) or placebo. The primary outcome measures were changes in the International Prostate Symptom Score (IPSS) and variables of uroflowmetry. Secondary outcome measures included changes in prostate size, residual urinary volume after voiding, laboratory values and the reported adverse effects.
RESULTS:
G. lucidum was effective and significantly superior to placebo for improving total IPSS with 2.1 points decreasing at the end of treatment (mean difference, -1.18 points; 95% confidence interval, -1.74 to -0.62; P < 0.0001). No changes were observed with respect to quality of life scores, peak urinary flow, mean urinary flow, residual urine, prostate volume, serum prostate-specific antigen or testosterone levels. Overall treatment was well tolerated with no severe adverse effects.
CONCLUSION:
The extract of G. lucidum was well tolerated and improved IPSS scores. These results encouraged a further, large-scale evaluation of phytotherapy for a long duration using the extract of G. lucidum on men with LUTS.


here's what you posted on Reishi,

I found the full text of the reishi 5-AR inhibition paper. The doses they used in rats were either 0.3% of diet as unextracted mushrooms or 1.5 mg/kg of the extract.

1.5 mg/kg divide by 6.2 going from rats to humans times 70 kg human = 17 mg extract. A gram of Swanson's best extract has 80 mg of triterpenes (which do the 5-AR inhibition), so it should work.

For unextracted mushrooms, 0.3% of diet = 3000 mg/kg diet. A rat eats 5 g diet per 100 g body which makes it 150 mg/kg. Divide by 6.2 times 70 kg human = 1.7 grams mushrooms.

I thouhght the reishi is a testosteron blocker,not only DHT,isn't?

Correct. It hits both 5-AR and the androgen receptor.

Reishi also extends lifespan, at least in mice. They got the best results with 175 mg Reishi/kg bodyweight. To get the human equivalent dose you have to divide that by 12.3 (Mice are small so they need a faster metabolism to maintain body temperature.), so a 70 kg human would need about a gram of ReishiMax. That contains 132 mg polysaccharides, 59 mg tripterpenes, and 150 mg cracked spores. Swanson's "Super Potent" Reishi has 120 mg polysaccharides, 80 mg triterpenes, and 200 mg cracked spores, which I figure is close enough. (Swanson also has a less sophisticated extract which I bought once by accident.)

Reishi is probably a better bet than SP for DHT lowering. It has no undesirable side effects and increases lifespan in mice. There are several Reishi posts in this thread from #280 to #294.

SP has a reputation for weight gain in the thighs and cellulite. That thread also mentions that fenugreek goes well with PM.

Here's a chart depicting Abi's day-by-day cycling of PM, FG, estradiol, and progesterone cream. Her obsessiveness has made her one of my heroes.

Thanks Candace that's good to know that not all of the Reishi products are not the same. I've looked around and noticed that the prices for Reishi vary greatly and wondered why that is. I assume its the difference in the potency and effectiveness.

Still its hard to explain why Natures Way sells for 6.89 for 100 capsules while Life Extension is 22.50 for 60 capsules.

Nature's Way contains only 188 mg of extract per capsule and there's no triterpene guarantee, while LEF guarantees triterpenes and has 490 mg of extract. Usually Nature's Way is a classy company so I was surprised to see them cheating on this one.

It can take 3 months to see an effect.

I'd choose Reishi to replace SP as the 5-AR inhibitor, since Reishi doesn't mess with female hormones and has the nice side effects of immune enhancement and lifespan extension.

An oil rich in GLA like borage or evening primrose will elevate PGE1 which increases aromatase. White peony is another method. I find it darkly hilarious that LEF sells it as an immune booster and is apparently oblivious to its hormonal effects.

Aromatase only works on testosterone, so you'll need a 5-AR inhibitor like reishi, pygeum, pumpkin seed oil, or saw palmetto to prevent DHT production. I'm less certain about reishi after having looked for pharmacokinetic data. I can't find any human data, and rats metabolize at least one of the reishi triterpenes rapidly so it has a half-life of a few hours. That's OK for rats because they nibble on their food all day, but could be problematic for humans taking it only once or twice a day. (The immune boost doesn't need reishi to be constantly in your system, but 5-AR should be continuously blocked.)

The other 5-AR inhibitors I listed have beta-sitosterol which has a nice half-life measured in days.

MSM is a straightforward molecule so any good brand would work. I've used Now and Doctor's Best.

I am irritated by the wild goose chase you sent me on. XXD, Isabelle, and Abi Drew never mentioned taking Reishi in those threads. Tibetan Princess only mentioned it on page 1 of 66, didn't mention any effects, and was also taking pygeum so it would be impossible to isolate any Reishi effects on DHT.

Duh!, tibetan stated she took Reishi, and offered an anecdotal in there too, both of which you missed and why I listed again.

Reishi is a natural anti androgen plus it fights viruses, bacteria and funguses. I take for my auto immune disease as well.

Your latest anecdotes are just silly. Your Tibetan quote is the one I found earlier, and it involved taking Reishi with a stack of anti-androgens including pygeum so we have no evidence that the Reishi did anything. Your Abi quote just states that she wished she'd had it when she needed a 5-AR blocker. She never even took it! It makes you look foolish when you post things that don't help your case.

What part of this don't you get!, (it's highlighted, you obviously overlooked it).

That says green tea inhibits 5-AR. There's nothing in the paper about peony inhibiting 5-AR.

Come on, you can find it, the info is out there.......

I doubt it. You would have shared it if it existed. White peony inhibiting 5-AR appears to be a myth resulting from people misunderstanding the abstract of the paper you cited.

Which specific chemicals are you referring to? And for each of them, how much is in peony extract, what is the dose-response relationship for blood levels, what is the IC50 for 5-AR, and what is the half-life in the body? Using that information, enlighten us as to what dose would be required to be useful in lowering DHT. If you can't do this, please retract your claim that peony extract is a practical 5-AR inhibitor. We shouldn't have to take your word for it.

The answers have been given to you again, if you can quote IC50 values then you can certainly figure out the chemical constituents for 5 ar. On top of the you want me to tell you the IC50 of 5 alpha reductase?, hilarious!.

Which specific chemicals are you referring to? 

Of course I have it, no myth here, the misunderstanding is entirely yours!!, or do I need to explain this part to you.

Which specific chemicals are you referring to? 

Still can't figure it out?, ok, how about finding at least (3) 5 ar's on there?.

Main content: Paeoniflorin,C23H28O10 (3.3%~9.4); paeonol,C9H10O3 (0.0283%); benzoylpaeoniflorin, C30H32O12 (0.04%).

Other Consituents:albiforin (0.06%~0.07%); culapedungin; gallotannin; oxypaeoniflorin; paeoni-florigenone (0.04%); oxgpaeonigflorin (0.12%~0.21%); gallotcnnin; benzoic acid (1.07%);beta-sitosterol; gallic acid;ether gallic acid; D-catechin; palbinone;beta-pailactone; galloylpaeoniflorin; daucosterol; etc.
Up.

Phytochemicals of White Poeny Root:

Paeoniflorin; Albiflorin; Oxypaeoniflorin; Paeonin; Benzoylpaeoniflorin; Hydroxypaeoniflorin; Galloylpaeoniflorin; Lactoflorin; Paeonilactone A, B, C; beta-sitosterol; Daucosterol; Z-1s, 5R-beta-pinen-10-yl-beta-vicianoside; 1, 2, 3, 6-tetra-O-galloyl-beta-D-glucose; 1, 2, 3, 4, 6-penta-O-galloyl-beta-D-glucose; Catechin; Benzoic acid; Paeonol.
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Aromatase only works on testosterone

Incorrect, DHT is converted by aromatase to estrogen.

Aromatase also converts androstenedione (a sex hormone precursor) to the female hormone estrone, another estrogen, although weaker than estradiol.
If you increase the activity of aromatase, you can increase levels of female sex hormones (estradiol, estrone).

Factors known to increase aromatase activity include age, obesity, insulin, gonadotropins, and alcohol. Aromatase activity is decreased by prolactin, anti-Müllerian hormone and the common herbicide glyphosate. Aromatase activity appears to be enhanced in certain estrogen-dependent local tissue next to breast tissue, endometrial cancer, endometriosis, and uterine fibroids.

Don't confuse the enzyme 5 alpha reductase, which converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT).