[Lotus]

From Wikipedia, 'Dihydrotestosterone' "The enzyme 5α-reductase synthesizes DHT in the prostate, testes, hair follicles, and adrenal glands" . Women have an equivalent to the prostate, and the ovaries are the female equivalent to the testes.

Aromatase as you say turns testosterone into estrogen. Two different enzyme catalysts turn testosterone into different other hormones. I'm guessing, but 5α-aromatase right?

Because there are two different catalysts that turn testosterone into two different hormones, There could be a chart that shows both processes, but its unlikely for a chart to show it as one process.

A new search for botanicals that lower 5-alpha-reductase (thereby DHT). Pygeum, saw palmetto, green tea, and red reishi, might just be those herbs, but verification is needed.

bound hormones and Dihydro* are different.

Gonadotrophins and testicular function

FSH and LH are important regulators of spermatogenesis and steroidogenesis, acting respectively on the Sertoli cells and Leydig cells. They increase intracellular concentrations of free cholesterol and its transport through the mitochondrial membrane by the StAR protein (the regulation of StAR is the rate-limiting step in gonadotrophin-induced steroid synthesis). Here cholesterol is converted into pregnenolone, then in androstenedione, DHEA and testosterone: these androgens bind to an androgen-binding protein (ABP), which carries them in the testicular fluid. Some testosterone is converted to estradiol by Sertoli cell-derived aromatase enzyme.



Leydig cell steroidogenesis is controlled primarily by LH with negative feedback of testosterone on the hypothalamic-pituitary axis. Testosterone and FSH act synergically on the Sertoli cells, that produces inhibin (which has a selective negative feedback action on FSH secretion) and androgen receptors. The small amount of estrogen formed from peripheral aromatization of testosterone can inhibit both FSH and LH secretion.
If testicular androgen production is inhibited by the administration of exogenous androgens then spermatogenesis ceases.

Transport, metabolism and actions of androgens

The 98% of circulating testosterone is bound to albumin or to sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). SHBG is synthesized in the liver and its circulating concentration is increased by estrogen or excess thyroid hormones and decreased by exogenous androgens, glucocorticoids or growth hormone and by hypothyroidism, acromegaly and obesity. In the liver, testosterone is converted to androsterone and etiocholanolone.
In target tissues, testosterone or its reduced form DHT induces release of a heat shock protein, dimerization of two receptors and translocation to the nucleus where the dimer binds to an estrogen-like hormone response element on DNA.
http://flipper.diff.org/app/items/5569


   


On the herbs yes, green tea though is still iffy for lowering DHT.

[Dynseli]

your post about binding affinity to carrier proteins matches up with what is at wikipedia 'SHBG'.

The binding affinity for estrogen wouldn't explain why women have a higher % of more free testosterone. An overall lower level of testosterone could mean lower % of testosterone while having less free testosterone than a male.

"estosterone and estradiol circulate in the bloodstream, bound mostly to SHBG and to a lesser extent serum albumin and corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG) (AKA transcortin)" wikipedia SHBG

"If more testosterone is converted to estrogen due to abnormal aromatase levels, the SHGB I will increase as well. SHGB, being more readily bound to testosterone, will leave us with excess estrogen levels in the system, which in turn will stimulate increased production of the SHGB protein from the liver." - Lotus; estrogen is responsible for raising SHGB, even though it has lesser affinity for it? SHGB seems to have a minimal impact on women then.

So you see the pattern of estrogen lowering testosterone, prolactin, and progesterone. Prolactin lowering estrogen and testosterone. The 3 hormones, and possibly testosterone (but not DHT) up-regulating the opposing receptors in the breast, making them more sensitive to growth stimulus. The 4 hormones have a seesaw effect, on each other and on the receptors.

We need new threads on binding carrier proteins and reductase.

[Dynseli]

Does anyone think that having pubic, facial, or other body hair is an opportunity to reduce DHT and increase estrogen from testosterone for results?

[Lotus]

your post about binding affinity to carrier proteins matches up with what is at wikipedia 'SHBG'.

The binding affinity for estrogen wouldn't explain why women have a higher % of more free testosterone. An overall lower level of testosterone could mean lower % of testosterone while having less free testosterone than a male.

"estosterone and estradiol circulate in the bloodstream, bound mostly to SHBG and to a lesser extent serum albumin and corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG) (AKA transcortin)" wikipedia SHBG

"If more testosterone is converted to estrogen due to abnormal aromatase levels, the SHGB I will increase as well. SHGB, being more readily bound to testosterone, will leave us with excess estrogen levels in the system, which in turn will stimulate increased production of the SHGB protein from the liver." - Lotus; estrogen is responsible for raising SHGB, even though it has lesser affinity for it? SHGB seems to have a minimal impact on women then.

So you see the pattern of estrogen lowering testosterone, prolactin, and progesterone. Prolactin lowering estrogen and testosterone. The 3 hormones, and possibly testosterone (but not DHT) up-regulating the opposing receptors in the breast, making them more sensitive to growth stimulus. The 4 hormones have a seesaw effect, on each other and on the receptors.

We need new threads on binding carrier proteins and reductase.

Ok, only it's my bedtime, lol.

Here's a start for the cause, I'll leave the rest up to you.

Carrier Proteins and Active Membrane Transport
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26896/

[Larana]

ok, pulled the trigger and ordered a bottle of WP extract capsules (600mg per) should be here Wednesday.

have also been on a break from everything for the last 7 days.

Good luck Lenneth, I've added WP (or should I say tried) to most liquids I drink. Currently I think it combines well with green tea.

Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).

There's a reason for the green tea and WP and it goes back to spanky's post (which I'll try to respond to soon).

any idea what dose I should take?

want to obliterate the DHT but also make the supply of WP last as long as possible, $24 per bottle of 60 caps isn't my idea of cheap & right now I have to mind all of the pennies. (moving drained my finances badly)

I'm not familiar with the capsules, but I'd still combine WP the with green tea. I seriously think you'll see a big difference if you stick with it. 60 capsules @ 2 per day = 30 day supply. Next time go for the extract it's a little cheaper. Who did you use to buy from?.

L

Got it on Amazon, & the extract was the same price for only 4 oz...

What I Ordered

If you know someplace to get it for less, please let me know.

Hi Lenneth here is cheper a little: https://www.betterlife.com

[Lotus]

_________________________________________________

As you can see the pathway for Testosterone, Approximately 7% of testosterone is reduced to 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) by the cytochrome P450 enzyme 5α-reductase, an enzyme highly expressed in male sex organs and hair follicles. Approximately 0.3% of testosterone is converted into estradiol by aromatase (CYP19A1) an enzyme expressed in the brain, liver, and adipose tissues. Note-the percentages are slightly off, (multiple sources).

By inhibiting the enzyme 5-alpha reductase and promoting the enzyme aromatase along with your choice phytoestrogens or pharma E is key for breast growth in bio-males.

Herbs that convert aromatase-White Peony, Liorice root, Genistein (PM), BO.

Herbs that help block 5 ar, Licorice root, WP, Reishi, SP, pygeum, nettle root (NR is tricky though), BO (not an herb), chinese skullcap, linolenic acid, green tea, progesterone cream is a strong 5 ar, pumpkin seed oil, linolenic acid.

(Pharma-Dutasteride and Finasteride). Both finasteride and dutasteride undergo extensive hepatic metabolism primarily via the cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP 3A4) isoenzyme system.

Bruno deLignieres, an impeccable French researcher and Thiery Hertoghe, MD, fourth generation in the most distinguished family of endocrinologists in Belgium, have put forth the notion that rising estrogen levels are more likely to be the initiator of the process and that testosterone and DHT may then be a secondary player (promoter). In fact, phytotherapy (large doses of phytoestrogens - soy) is commonly used in European medical practices to treat BPH.

(Jonathan Wright and Eugene Shippen have written excellent, and popular books, discussing these more far-sighted notions all too commonly overlooked and even rejected in current conventional American Medical thinking.)

Testosterone is reduced by the enzyme 5-a-reductase to DHT which is then thought to be the real culprit. The argument between the use of Saw Palmetto, Pygeum and Pumpkin seeds vs Proscar are both directed at blocking this enzyme. Strangely, DHT is most important for sexual vigor, so blocking this step may have some unintended consequences!

On the other hand, Testosterone is also converted into estradiol by aromatase (producing the aromatic ring). This occurs increasingly with age in the liver but most importantly ... in the fat stores.

http://www.antiaging.com/andropause/andropause2.html

[rocketmelon]

wild yαm contαins these ...........
16α-hydroxyestrone blocker
β-sitosterol ?
whαt αre they

oh pm hαs αrmo-enzyme thingy too...αnd licorice

so is it T or free T that is a good thing? what do you think of velvet bean...ever heard of it ...think it increases T instead of DHT

sorry if I get any of it wrong seriously some of this goes right over meh brain

and on your bio you take nettle ! for T should I try that for healthy leevls ?

thanx lotus
oh yeh on a random topic (= what made you pick the name the name lotus just wondered if it be some kind of campfire story =B lol

[Dynseli]

Ok, only it's my bedtime, lol.

Here's a start for the cause, I'll leave the rest up to you.

Carrier Proteins and Active Membrane Transport
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26896/

Continued here...

'Botanicals that mimic or affect DHT, other dihydro-hormones, and 5α-reductase' http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=21168

'Hormone binding; carrier proteins; (SHBG, albumin, CBG, transcortin)' http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=21169

More:

It does seem like LH raises testosterone without raising negative feedback. The correlation between high levels of LH and high estrogen may mean the body aromatases a lot of it on its own. Perhaps by taking more aromatase herbs, more of this is converted into estrogen, than DHT. so DHT must be needed, but excessive body hair may mean there is more than enough DHT. That picture really simplifies a lot of what this thread is about testosterone conversion to DHT or estrogen.

[Dynseli]

16α-hydroxyestrone blocker looks like an action rather than a chemical. You'll have to do a wikipedia or NIH search. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/

β-sitosterol is a fatty acid that supposedly weakly reduces DHT.

Wild Yam and Fenugreek both contain diosgenin, which activates breast growth.

[Lotus]

[quote='rocketmelon' pid='124505' dateline='1405449588']
wild yαm contαins these ...........
16α-hydroxyestrone blocker
β-sitosterol ?
whαt αre they

oh pm hαs αrmo-enzyme thingy too...αnd licorice

so is it T or free T that is a good thing? what do you think of velvet bean...ever heard of it ...think it increases T instead of DHT

sorry if I get any of it wrong seriously some of this goes right over meh brain

and on your bio you take nettle ! for T should I try that for healthy leevls ?

thanx lotus
oh yeh on a random topic (= what made you pick the name the name lotus just wondered if it be some kind of campfire story =B lol
[/quote]

* 16-hydroxyestrone (16alpha-OHE) is a toxic estrogen metabolite that acts as a catalyst for cancer cells increasing the likelihood of both breast and prostate cancer forming and developing into something life threatening.

* β-Sitosterol is one of several phytosterols (plant sterols) with chemical structures similar to that of cholesterol.

* Free T is the bio-active kind of testosterone, making it also the kind that can be converted to DHT, and also converted to E2 through aromatase.

* I would stay away from nettle root, it lowers prolactin and raises T, however it also raise E, crazy!!.

* As far as velvet bean,
WORD OF CAUTION - It should not be used by pregnant or lactating women because it can lower prolactin and it increases testosterone.
http://www.herbalhealer.com/velvetbean.html

[quote='rocketmelon' pid='124505' dateline='1405449588']
oh yeh on a random topic (= what made you pick the name the name lotus just wondered if it be some kind of campfire story =B lol[quote][/quote]

Lol, it was from a rebirth thing so to speak, the lotus retracts into the water at the night and emerges fresh in the sun the next day, also the blue lotus flower is associated with a victory of the spirit over that of wisdom, intelligence and knowledge. I know blah blah, lol.