[Lotus]

This study lists some of the herbs in question, I think I know what your looking for though (I might have something discussing the potential risks), I'll keep an eye out.


Botanical and Dietary Supplements for Menopause
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17194961

Can common menopausal supplements like black cohosh, red clover, and soy really reduce menopausal symptoms?

[Lotus]

Phytoestrogens and the Risk of Breast Cancer

Phytoestrogens are estrogen-like chemicals found in plant foods such as beans, seeds, and grains. Foods made from soybeans have some of the highest levels of phytoestrogens and have been studied the most. In spite of initial optimism, it is not clear whether eating foods rich in phytoestrogens decreases breast cancer risk. This is an active area of research with much work needed to resolve this issue. This fact sheet presents the most current information and indicates where more research would be helpful.

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/factshee....phyto.pdf


One of the ways higher estrogen exposure may be linked to breast cancer risk is through its ability to increase growth of milk ducts in the breast. Most breast cancer arises from these ducts. Several but not all studies examining the effect of soy phytoestrogens on breast growth in women have suggested that phytoestrogens have a weak estrogen-like effect. The longest examination followed 28 women for a year. These women received a soy supplement for six months. While they were taking this supplement the women were found to have more growth of the milk ducts in their breasts. These studies are not conclusive, but such growth could increase breast cancer risk.

[Lotus]

Studies have shown that reducing inflammation (by way of omega 3's, green tea and others reduce inflammation) lowers PGE2 (Prostaglandins).

Prostaglandins promote inflammation and may contribute to cancer by increasing cell proliferation and inhibiting apoptosis. The findings of a study reported in 2009 suggest that soy isoflavones may have chemopreventive effects via inhibition of the prostaglandin pathway.


Prostate Cancer, Nutrition, and Dietary Supplements (PDQ®)

Some experiments have been conducted comparing effects of individual isoflavones with isoflavone combinations on prostate cancer cells. In one such study, human prostate cancer cells were treated with a soy extract (containing genistin, daidzin, and glycitin), genistein, or daidzein. The soy extract induced cell cycle arrest and apoptosis in prostate cancer cells to a greater degree than did treatment with the individual isoflavones. Genistein and daidzein activated apoptosis in noncancerous benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) cells, but the soy extract had no effect on those cells. These findings suggest that products containing a combination of active compounds (e.g., "whole foods") may be more effective in preventing cancer than individual compounds.[13] Similarly, in another study, prostate cancer cells were treated with genistein, biochanin A, quercetin, doublets of those compounds (e.g., genistein + quercetin), or with all three compounds. All of the treatments resulted in decreased cell proliferation, but the greatest reductions occurred using the combination of genistein, biochanin A, and quercetin. The triple combination treatment induced more apoptosis in prostate cancer cells than did individual or doublet compound treatments. These results indicate that combining phytoestrogens may increase the effectiveness of the individual compounds.[14]

At least one study has examined the combined effect of soy isoflavones and curcumin. Human prostate cancer cells were treated with isoflavones, curcumin, or a combination of the two. Curcumin and isoflavones in combination were more effective in lowering PSA levels and expression of the androgenreceptor than were curcumin or the isoflavones individually.[15]

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/c...onal/page8

[myboobs]

So basically to suppress testorone and promote elstogen / estradol , best choice liquorice , healthy ffats best choice walnuts , best protein peanuts . Or am I barking up wrong tree ?

Yeah you're on the right track, it's still gobblygoo to me too. Estrogens and androgens take pathways to get to those hormone receptors, and then they go through something like the stove top jiffy popcorn tins, (lol, you remember those things?). Well once those molecules in the receptors bind (activate) to the nucleus (DNA) growth can occur. It doesn't happen to every cell, some of the hormones languish around and get lazy and get peed out, (what?, you have better way to say it lol?, expelled?, take a pick).

Certain phytoestrogens can be more effective than others, just like how estradiol is more potent than estriol and estrone, or how DHT is the most potent androgen. Frankly there's quite a few ways to get breasts going, everybody is different as we know. Some people carry more breast growth genes than others, why that is isn't fully understood. But.....some offensive tools are just now coming into focus, at least in my opinion.

I seem to have lazy booby genes . After 2 yrs I m still AA

[spanky]

Studies have shown that reducing inflammation (by way of omega 3's, green tea and others reduce inflammation) lowers PGE2 (Prostaglandins).

Prostaglandins promote inflammation and may contribute to cancer by increasing cell proliferation and inhibiting apoptosis. The findings of a study reported in 2009 suggest that soy isoflavones may have chemopreventive effects via inhibition of the prostaglandin pathway.


Prostate Cancer, Nutrition, and Dietary Supplements (PDQ®)

Some experiments have been conducted comparing effects of individual isoflavones with isoflavone combinations on prostate cancer cells. In one such study, human prostate cancer cells were treated with a soy extract (containing genistin, daidzin, and glycitin), genistein, or daidzein. The soy extract induced cell cycle arrest and apoptosis in prostate cancer cells to a greater degree than did treatment with the individual isoflavones. Genistein and daidzein activated apoptosis in noncancerous benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) cells, but the soy extract had no effect on those cells. These findings suggest that products containing a combination of active compounds (e.g., "whole foods") may be more effective in preventing cancer than individual compounds.[13] Similarly, in another study, prostate cancer cells were treated with genistein, biochanin A, quercetin, doublets of those compounds (e.g., genistein + quercetin), or with all three compounds. All of the treatments resulted in decreased cell proliferation, but the greatest reductions occurred using the combination of genistein, biochanin A, and quercetin. The triple combination treatment induced more apoptosis in prostate cancer cells than did individual or doublet compound treatments. These results indicate that combining phytoestrogens may increase the effectiveness of the individual compounds.[14]

At least one study has examined the combined effect of soy isoflavones and curcumin. Human prostate cancer cells were treated with isoflavones, curcumin, or a combination of the two. Curcumin and isoflavones in combination were more effective in lowering PSA levels and expression of the androgenreceptor than were curcumin or the isoflavones individually.[15]

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/c...onal/page8

That is really interesting. I'm always up for cocktails!

[Lotus]

I think we have it, yay!!!, it's in line with what we've been saying about the high dosages. This is a very detailed study from 2006, (it's what we've been looking for, I'll post some telling details).

Phytoestrogens and breast cancer –promoters or protectors?

Short-term dietary supplementation has been shown to have proliferative effects on breast tissue in premenopausal women with breast tumors (not in women without breast disease) and animal studies have provided conflicting data as to whether phytoestrogens stimulate or inhibit chemically induced tumors or tumor implants. Generally, high concentrations of phytoestrogens are required to inhibit specific steroidogenic enzymes and hence local production of oestrogens that could be important in oestrogen-dependent breast cancers. Therefore, there is experimental evidence for both a promotional and a protective effect of phytoestrogens on breast cancer, but at the present time it is impossible to reconcile dietary/supplement exposure with epidemiological and experimental studies. Of major concern is that phytoestrogen supplements are over-the-counter drugs and women who do not find relief of menopausal symptoms with recommended dosages may simply up the dose of such ‘natural’ alternatives and achieve circulating concentrations of these compounds that may have deleterious effects on their health. Further work is required to determine the cellular actions of phytoestrogens beyond the oestrogen receptor and the effects of combinations of different phytoestrogens during long-term exposure.

http://erc.endocrinology-journals.org/co...4/995.full

[Lotus]

Steroid synthesis in intratumoral stromal and carcinoma cells and the potential sites at which flavones and isoflavones may inhibit the production of biologically active oestrogens. Androgens taken up by carcinoma cells include androstenedione and DHEA, the latter of which is converted to androstenedione by 3β-HSD1. Androstenedione is converted to oestrone by aromatase. Oestrone sulphate is converted to oestradiol by ETS and 17β-HSD.ETS, oestrogen sulfatase; EST, oestrogen sulfotransferase/SULT1E1; HSD, hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase.

Basically, it's stating flavones are anti-aromatase, while red clover is the on switch between 17 beta HSD and ER-a (estrogen receptor alpha, the growth receptor).

[Lotus]

So basically to suppress testorone and promote elstogen / estradol , best choice liquorice , healthy ffats best choice walnuts , best protein peanuts . Or am I barking up wrong tree ?

Yeah you're on the right track, it's still gobblygoo to me too. Estrogens and androgens take pathways to get to those hormone receptors, and then they go through something like the stove top jiffy popcorn tins, (lol, you remember those things?). Well once those molecules in the receptors bind (activate) to the nucleus (DNA) growth can occur. It doesn't happen to every cell, some of the hormones languish around and get lazy and get peed out, (what?, you have better way to say it lol?, expelled?, take a pick).

Certain phytoestrogens can be more effective than others, just like how estradiol is more potent than estriol and estrone, or how DHT is the most potent androgen. Frankly there's quite a few ways to get breasts going, everybody is different as we know. Some people carry more breast growth genes than others, why that is isn't fully understood. But.....some offensive tools are just now coming into focus, at least in my opinion.

I seem to have lazy booby genes . After 2 yrs I m still AA

Their there MB, maybe they need a stern talking to time to wake em' up if you know what I mean. Maybe that thai breast slapping technique might work?, j/k

[myboobs]

So basically to suppress testorone and promote elstogen / estradol , best choice liquorice , healthy ffats best choice walnuts , best protein peanuts . Or am I barking up wrong tree ?

Yeah you're on the right track, it's still gobblygoo to me too. Estrogens and androgens take pathways to get to those hormone receptors, and then they go through something like the stove top jiffy popcorn tins, (lol, you remember those things?). Well once those molecules in the receptors bind (activate) to the nucleus (DNA) growth can occur. It doesn't happen to every cell, some of the hormones languish around and get lazy and get peed out, (what?, you have better way to say it lol?, expelled?, take a pick).

Certain phytoestrogens can be more effective than others, just like how estradiol is more potent than estriol and estrone, or how DHT is the most potent androgen. Frankly there's quite a few ways to get breasts going, everybody is different as we know. Some people carry more breast growth genes than others, why that is isn't fully understood. But.....some offensive tools are just now coming into focus, at least in my opinion.

I seem to have lazy booby genes . After 2 yrs I m still AA

Their there MB, maybe they need a stern talking to time to wake em' up if you know what I mean. Maybe that thai breast slapping technique might work?, j/k

Pmsl give them 50 shades of grey treatment

[pom19]

You are amazing Lotus. POM