[Marina Kits]

This taken from the "HIDING THEM IN MALE MODE" thread (I figured it was time to transplant the highjack)

Just went to Hollister the other day to buy some new panties, let me tell you the looks I got. Even the cashier was quite skeptical, but kept her mouth quiet which was a good move on her end

Alienating customers in this kind of economics is like commuting financial suicide.... which is good for us.... gets everyone used to seeing us in the lingerie department... lol

oh dont worry, i filed a formal complaint with their corporate HQ

Sadly a few of the stores where I live don't care if anything is financial suicide or not, actually had one uppity witch (substitute B for the W) call store security on me in one store once....

Complained to the Corporate HQ by e-mail, received a very nice apology, then the next time I tried to go in the store I was escorted out by security having been banned from the store by the store manager "on suspicion of shoplifting & being a pervert", complained to their HQ about that to (also got another apology) but never went back.

I've been wrestling with this since I read NightKat's response yesterday. While I think being treated like NightKat and Lenneth (especially Lenneth!) is abhorrent, I'm not sure reporting it to HQ and bringing down wrath from above on these, obviously bigoted, store employees is a good response. If reprimands come down on them, the whole event will just become all the more memorable and they will probably tell the story forever about how some "pervert" got them in hot water. That really hurts our perception in the public's eye. ...An epic backfire!

I suggest turning the tables on them. Leave peacefully and tell all YOUR friends and acquaintances how rudely YOU were treated, never shop there again and perhaps drop a non aggressive note in the mail to the store manager about the "bad advertising" they are getting from you and explaining while they might not like you, your purchases are profitable for the store too. Or mention Andrej Pejić, the Australian androgynous model who is sought after by many VERY respected fashion companies. The local stores all have goals to meet that are imposed by HQ and HQ certainly puts profits over morality so working from the top down does no good in my opinion. A bad local rapport will be most effective at punishing the bigots who are responsible while preserving and building respect among the masses who have yet to understand gender diversity.

[Karren]

Yeah... To date I have never had an issue with anyone while out shopping... regardless of what I was wearing.... or buying... and never had an issue out enfemme.... I treat everyone with respect and they do the same.... if you act that this is normal then you project your new reality on others.... but that's just me....

[MonikaT]

It seems to me that money is money, and most stores don't care who is buying what. If a guy goes into a store dressed as a guy, and he purchases female clothing, who is to say it isn't a gift for his partner? Women buy male undergarments all the time and nobody bats an eyelash because it is assumed it is for her son, boyfriend or husband. Admittedly, most men wouldn't be caught dead buying bras and panties for a wife or girlfriend, but I'm sure some do.

Since I've never gone out en femme, I have actually gone out alone and bought makeup in male mode. Admittedly, my first time I did it in a city 100 miles from where I lived (I was in town visiting someone in a nursing home), but I figured either the store wanted my money or they didn't. I've also bought it in the town where I live now. I went at an off time (after midnight before going home after work) when I figured I'd be less of a distraction. Oddly, there were a lot of women in the makeup section of Walmart at that time. It took me a while to find the nail clippers I was seeking, the tube of mascara, and a tube of eyelash glue.

As long as a person acts like they belong there and aren't doing anything inappropriate, most people don't pay attention.

Complaining to a manager is probably better than complaining to corporate since corporate is well aware of the legal ramifications of discrimination and will almost always apologize, but corporate usually doesn't care about the fine details of any one store or employee unless there is a lawsuit. The store manager is the one who is supposed to care about the local store. If the problem IS the manager, then I guess corporate or the district manager would be the one to complain to. It is unfortunate that some people can be so narrow miinded.

[Lisia]

I agree that calling down wrath from on high onto a particular disrespectful employee is not the way to go. Maybe it's possible to file a complaint(if you feel it's warranted) without singling anyone out?

[Lenneth]

I guess i forgot to mention that i did first file a complaint with store management (sorry couldn't sleep and was up late), the e-mail to their HQ was later after I was treated with equal contempt by the store management.

I never contact a company HQ with a complaint first, that is always a last resort.

Thing to with that issue was I was buying a gift for a friend and was in the shoe department.

[Demon Lord Etna]

Lenneth, I personally have no objections singling anyone out. Everyone else, here comes the rant. TL;DR as necessary. If they're wrong, they're wrong. If their wrongness results in the store losing sales, even if it's just one sale, those in the seat of power must be made aware. There is more involved than simply one incident. Let's look at this from the business aspect (I knew all those years of college would pay off someday).

You entered a store, expecting to make a purchase. This particular employee actively and aggressively disrespected you because of your gender, and yes, this was gender discrimination. Before anything else, this employee on that one incident should be fired for violating the corporate equal opportunity program, or at the very least, required to attend formal training on said program.

Your first incident cost the store that one sale, but your second has, apparently, cost that store a lifetime of sales. Not only that, but word of mouth is very powerful advertising. Simply by having discussions like this one, other transgendered individuals would most likely avoid that store as well, simply on principle. Add the sales of tolerant and sympathetic people who just happened to see you being escorted out for something so ridiculous, because I'm pretty sure that at least some of them won't be going back either. That adds up to a lot of sales over time.

Now, imagine if the scene went the other way... not only were you not kicked out, but the staff was actually friendly and helpful. You would probably feel more inclined to return to that store, and that same word of mouth advertising from the previous point that cost them potentially millions in TG sales, just became a gold mine for them as people like us start going there to get the service and respect we deserve and expect from someone who, if nothing else, wants our money.

[Marina Kits]

I guess i forgot to mention that i did first file a complaint with store management (sorry couldn't sleep and was up late), the e-mail to their HQ was later after I was treated with equal contempt by the store management.

I never contact a company HQ with a complaint first, that is always a last resort.

Thing to with that issue was I was buying a gift for a friend and was in the shoe department.

OMG! You WERE actually buying a gift for someone?!?! That's off the charts wrong in every way imaginable Lenneth. I guess I would have complained about that too. If I was buying for myself and somehow thought they knew it, I'd have done what I described above. I have to say though, my experience is a lot like Karren's - completely uneventful. Only once, in a ShopKo, I thought the clerk suspected what I was buying was for me (probably because I bought a lot of plain Jane stuff) and she had a bit of a "good grief" attitude but I can't say with certainty that it was because of me. She might have been having a bad day before our paths crossed.

[nightkat89]

This taken from the "HIDING THEM IN MALE MODE" thread (I figured it was time to transplant the highjack)

Just went to Hollister the other day to buy some new panties, let me tell you the looks I got. Even the cashier was quite skeptical, but kept her mouth quiet which was a good move on her end

Alienating customers in this kind of economics is like commuting financial suicide.... which is good for us.... gets everyone used to seeing us in the lingerie department... lol

oh dont worry, i filed a formal complaint with their corporate HQ

Sadly a few of the stores where I live don't care if anything is financial suicide or not, actually had one uppity witch (substitute B for the W) call store security on me in one store once....

Complained to the Corporate HQ by e-mail, received a very nice apology, then the next time I tried to go in the store I was escorted out by security having been banned from the store by the store manager "on suspicion of shoplifting & being a pervert", complained to their HQ about that to (also got another apology) but never went back.

I've been wrestling with this since I read NightKat's response yesterday. While I think being treated like NightKat and Lenneth (especially Lenneth!) is abhorrent, I'm not sure reporting it to HQ and bringing down wrath from above on these, obviously bigoted, store employees is a good response. If reprimands come down on them, the whole event will just become all the more memorable and they will probably tell the story forever about how some "pervert" got them in hot water. That really hurts our perception in the public's eye. ...An epic backfire!

I suggest turning the tables on them. Leave peacefully and tell all YOUR friends and acquaintances how rudely YOU were treated, never shop there again and perhaps drop a non aggressive note in the mail to the store manager about the "bad advertising" they are getting from you and explaining while they might not like you, your purchases are profitable for the store too. Or mention Andrej Pejić, the Australian androgynous model who is sought after by many VERY respected fashion companies. The local stores all have goals to meet that are imposed by HQ and HQ certainly puts profits over morality so working from the top down does no good in my opinion. A bad local rapport will be most effective at punishing the bigots who are responsible while preserving and building respect among the masses who have yet to understand gender diversity.

Eh, Like i said in that previous thread, I just speak with my wallet. They won't get my support anymore. Word travels quick

[Lenneth]

I guess i forgot to mention that i did first file a complaint with store management (sorry couldn't sleep and was up late), the e-mail to their HQ was later after I was treated with equal contempt by the store management.

I never contact a company HQ with a complaint first, that is always a last resort.

Thing to with that issue was I was buying a gift for a friend and was in the shoe department.

OMG! You WERE actually buying a gift for someone?!?! That's off the charts wrong in every way imaginable Lenneth. I guess I would have complained about that too. If I was buying for myself and somehow thought they knew it, I'd have done what I described above. I have to say though, my experience is a lot like Karren's - completely uneventful. Only once, in a ShopKo, I thought the clerk suspected what I was buying was for me (probably because I bought a lot of plain Jane stuff) and she had a bit of a "good grief" attitude but I can't say with certainty that it was because of me. She might have been having a bad day before our paths crossed.

yeah, kind hard to believe a tightwad like myself would buy a fairly expensive pair of shoes as a cheer up gift for a friend who was having a bad week (not being sarcastic, I am a tightwad)

the part that utterly baffled me is they seemed to think I was buying them for myself when they were a size 5 shoe and I wear a 10...

[flamesabers]

the part that utterly baffled me is they seemed to think I was buying them for myself when they were a size 5 shoe and I wear a 10...

Maybe if the staff wasn't so focused on forming a hasty and baseless assumption about you they might have noticed this.