[tsukasadt]

Before I begin, I warn that this WILL be long. I just want to make sure you all have a little bit of background on the matter. Also, it is a two part-er.

Alright, as the title says, I'm uneducated. What this is supposed to mean is that I've been looking into sexuality for many years, but even now I don't understand even a fraction of what I've read. Probably because I dropped out of school before high school SexEd, but whatever.

Having said that, I'll go ahead and get this little bit out of the way. I may not know much, probably nothing, and my desires may conflict with themselves, but I resolute in what I want from my body.

Now, I've never really been a small guy (I'm tall and have a bit of a stomach now, but not too bad a month of my Marine training can't undo), and for the longest of time I've been entrances by the female body. No, not in the manner of wanting to be a girl, though I did spend a few months researching and entertaining the idea before dismissing it. This is strange, in my opinion, because I often fantasize about being a girl, having that side of the pleasure, etc., but I've also never really been normal.

So, I explained all that because from what I've been reading, over several years, a major concern for anyone wanting to help is these matters is the desire of the person asking for help. Since I'm on a breast-related forum posting in the "Breast Growth for Biological Males" section, I want my own breasts, in more ways than just on me, but the other side of that coin is my own problem.

Due to my "heavy" nature, I've had a bit of a head start with my "moobs", oh how I hate that word. A few months ago, a friend of mine, one of the few I've confided in, lent me her copy of Lucille Sorella's "Flat2Fem" guide, which I followed to the letter for about 4 months. Initially, there was an obvious and noticeable change, but that was short lived when after the fourth week there was no change to my measurements.

After that failure, I decided to do some more research, and came across BreastOptions.com. There I decided to try the Perfect Curves regimen. I started that on the 6th. In that time, both my breasts and my areola have doubled in size. Now instead of being too small for a 40AA, I'm filling it entirely with just not enough to warrant a 40A.

Okay, so here's the whole purpose of the thread, since I seem to have found a solution for appears to meet expectations at first glance.

I've read countless reviews on breast enhancement for products like and including Perfect Curves that provide arguments in both directions. In my searching of BreastNexus I've also seen many references to other products like PM and SP, which I have no clue what they are. As much as I want my own breasts, real, and permanent, I want to make sure I get it right. Any advice or, preferably, proper education on the subject in the lesser English language would be greatly appreciated.

That was part one. Part two is a little more straight-forward with part one explained. I want breasts, and I want to be free with them in public, but not while they are still in development. Yeah, weird, right? Well, I want breasts and to be open with them, but I feel I would be more vulnerable sharing them while they are still in-development than after it's all said and done. Here's the psychological analysis of that train-of-thought: I have subconscious doubts about having my own breasts and am afraid that sharing them before they've developed made lead to outside influences making me decide to stop their development. No, I have not spoken to doctors or therapists about this, nor will I. The doubt is there, and I'm far from blind to it, but I'm a logical person. To me, I recognize the potential for that doubt to flourish, and I don't want that to happen, despite the doubt.

Part two made simple: How can I hide my breasts while they are still in-development? I've read about compression bras, minimizers, etc. Actually speaking with sales persons as bra stores, those stores that sell nothing but bras, and they educated me that these are for those that already have development and want to make it less pronounced, not to hide development. For now, I've settled for a medium-sized Barely There ComfortFlex Fit Active Cami Strap Pullover Bra #5611, which I picked-up from Sears. It does the job, fairly well, but the soreness of the red marks is getting annoying, not to mention it is incredibly hard to take it off. :S

Thank you for taking the time to read about my particular situation, and more so if you take the time to reply. ^^

[flamesabers]

Hello tsukasadt.

Welcome to the board.

I don't think there is a single correct way of pursuing NBE. I think starting out with pm and adding on other herbs if need be is one possible route you can try.

I'm curious about your desire to hide your breasts while they're developing. Is this something you're willing to go to great lengths to as it will take several years for your breasts to be fully developed? Until you've attained a certain amount of growth I think hiding your budding breasts would mostly entail giving up on swimming and being discrete in public locker rooms.

If you are worried about other people influencing your feelings about growing breasts, maybe now isn't the time to get involved with NBE. It's best to make sure this is something you really want to go through from start to finish. I imagine it would be quite a stressful life if every time you went out in public you worried about whether anyone would make a rude or negative comment about your budding breasts.

[blackhawk]

While I am relatively new here and have just started NBE myself, the best advice I can give is to just be patient. If you had a program that was working I would stick to it, even if progress slows. You have to remember that it takes months/years for biological females to develop breasts, so you should expect the same timeline, if not a bit longer for yourself. PM stands for Pueraria Mirifica which is an extremely phytoestrogenic herb (it is a plant that mimics the female hormone estrogen). It is pretty popular and is actually what I have started on. SP stands for Saw Palmetto, which is a plant that is used to treat prostate issues. It functions by helping to lower DHT, which is the more potent form of testosterone. Many males may take this to make the process of raising the ratio of estrogen to testosterone easier, as too much testosterone will block the effects of estrogen. Another thing you should ask yourself is are you wanting children, because changing the chemical balance in your body to develop breasts can sometimes cause fertility problems. All of this should be considered before you begin. As for the rest, I believe there are more informed and experienced people on the forum that will be able to offer you more information and advice than myself.
Good Luck!

[chrishoney]

At the risk of sounding unsympathetic the best advice anyone can give you regarding your several questions is: READ, READ, READ as much of this extensive forum as you can tolerate. Even if you don't have a life outside NBE concerns, it would take you days if not weeks to wade through just the Breast Growth for Males section and the archives.

Use the search function built into BN (abbreviation for breastnexus.com). Using that function and simply searching on keyword "abbreviation" I found the answer to what PM and SP are (hint they are abbreviations.) You can search on keywords in just the title of posts or the entire post. If you find one member's ideas especially resonant, you can search for all their posts, including in many cases a program page and photos of results. START SEARCHING!

There is also a significant font of useful information with regard to personal programs and experiences in the BN archives, which are the accumulated posts in the old BN format. There is a huge amount of information there. You need to find it and spend many days sifting through it.

And then there is the ubiquitous internet (it's gotta be true, I read it on the internet, right?!) Simply google searching (or bing or whatever for that matter) gets downright tedious and daunting as you will get one gem for every couple hundred BS/sales/promotional sites merely designed to part you from your hard earned cash, not help you achieve your goals. A huge resource in this regard is searching www.scholar.google.com instead of a regular google search. You just have to get good/creative in the search terms you use. Search for any herb you are interested in plus any desired effects and/or side effects. Remember for most of the rest of the world, males growing breasts is an UNDESIRABLE side effect.

EVERYONE who has had success with NBE has done their homework in this regard. In my opinion it is even MORE important for males considering this process. While you are searching and sifting to find information relevant to YOUR unique situation, you will also be evaluating if this is really right for you, and how you can best keep yourself safe while achieving your goals. You may find your goals change in the process, or you may find your resolve grows stronger, either way you need to go through that process for yourself. For quite a number of reasons, NBE is probably more successful for males than females--so beware! This stuff really does work. Look at the photos of members with significant growth and then try to imagine you have those results. Breasts that have grown much past the bud stage DON'T go away once you get them, without surgery.

All of your questions have been asked MANY times before, and answered, which is why I suspect you will find a dearth of replies to such generalized questions. The bottom line: YOU need to do YOUR homework. You need to know what 5-alpha reductase is and why it may be important to your situation, or not. You need to know what aromatase is. You need to understand

Good luck and keep us posted on what program you try and any results.

[tsukasadt]

Welcome to the board.

Thank you. ^^

I'm curious about your desire to hide your breasts while they're developing. Is this something you're willing to go to great lengths to as it will take several years for your breasts to be fully developed? Until you've attained a certain amount of growth I think hiding your budding breasts would mostly entail giving up on swimming and being discrete in public locker rooms.

If you are worried about other people influencing your feelings about growing breasts, maybe now isn't the time to get involved with NBE. It's best to make sure this is something you really want to go through from start to finish. I imagine it would be quite a stressful life if every time you went out in public you worried about whether anyone would make a rude or negative comment about your budding breasts.

As I mentioned before, I consider myself an intelligent person, and as such I can't believe that there is a single person that wouldn't have some level of doubt in them about this major of a life change. Sure, it may be nothing more than a silent whisper, but I'm certain it is always there. I believe that all I've done is give that silent whisper a voice. The doubt it there, the fact that I bring it up makes that obvious, but I want genuine female breasts enough to push that whisper aside. My concern is that if I don't hide them until a certain point, that doubt may grow and be manipulated by the whispers and opinions of others, whereas if I hide them, they'll be my gems to consider without outside influence.

While I am relatively new here and have just started NBE myself, the best advice I can give is to just be patient.

I've spent the better part of the last decade conducting my own Internet-based research, testing ideas, and ultimately concluding that I have no interest in becoming a girl, but I do want what society deems to be a defining part of the female body, their breasts. It's confusing, well, not so much confusing as it is complicated.

PM stands for Pueraria Mirifica which is an extremely phytoestrogenic herb (it is a plant that mimics the female hormone estrogen). It is pretty popular and is actually what I have started on. SP stands for Saw Palmetto, which is a plant that is used to treat prostate issues. It functions by helping to lower DHT, which is the more potent form of testosterone. Many males may take this to make the process of raising the ratio of estrogen to testosterone easier, as too much testosterone will block the effects of estrogen.

Thank you for defining those. I've seen them all over the forum and never figured them out. I was actually taking Saw Palmetto with the Flat2Fem program, but I guess it wasn't enough for the program to work in full.

Another thing you should ask yourself is are you wanting children, because changing the chemical balance in your body to develop breasts can sometimes cause fertility problems.

Honestly, I don't have any particular preference on the subject of children. It's not that I don't want them, I just don't not want them. I hope that makes more sense to you than it did to me. :S

Good Luck!

Thank you. ^^

At the risk of sounding unsympathetic the best advice anyone can give you regarding your several questions is: READ, READ, READ as much of this extensive forum as you can tolerate. Even if you don't have a life outside NBE concerns, it would take you days if not weeks to wade through just the Breast Growth for Males section and the archives.

Use the search function built into BN (abbreviation for breastnexus.com). Using that function and simply searching on keyword "abbreviation" I found the answer to what PM and SP are (hint they are abbreviations.) You can search on keywords in just the title of posts or the entire post. If you find one member's ideas especially resonant, you can search for all their posts, including in many cases a program page and photos of results. START SEARCHING!

There is also a significant font of useful information with regard to personal programs and experiences in the BN archives, which are the accumulated posts in the old BN format. There is a huge amount of information there. You need to find it and spend many days sifting through it.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but "lol" at that first line. Please, feel free to hit me with whatever comments and criticism you feel I need.

As for reading through BreastNexus, believe me, I am. I do apologize for my lack on knowledge of acronyms, but five years in the Marine Corps will fill your head with so many of them that you'll never know what any of them mean, just what they refer to. Plus I've yet to see PM and SP elsewhere. :S

Now that I do know what they mean, I can honestly say I know nothing about PM, Google resulted in several technical pages, and sales websites, that confused me, as usual. As for SP, I've taken that in the past, and I can now properly reference it. ^^'

And then there is the ubiquitous internet (it's gotta be true, I read it on the internet, right?!) Simply google searching (or bing or whatever for that matter) gets downright tedious and daunting as you will get one gem for every couple hundred BS/sales/promotional sites merely designed to part you from your hard earned cash, not help you achieve your goals. A huge resource in this regard is searching www.scholar.google.com instead of a regular google search. You just have to get good/creative in the search terms you use. Search for any herb you are interested in plus any desired effects and/or side effects. Remember for most of the rest of the world, males growing breasts is an UNDESIRABLE side effect.

Thank you for the helpful tips on researching the matter. I've been using keywords like "male breast enlargement" and "how to grow breasts", but I tend to get the sales websites or technical jargon that is too much into physiology for my lack of education. :S

EVERYONE who has had success with NBE has done their homework in this regard. In my opinion it is even MORE important for males considering this process. While you are searching and sifting to find information relevant to YOUR unique situation, you will also be evaluating if this is really right for you, and how you can best keep yourself safe while achieving your goals. You may find your goals change in the process, or you may find your resolve grows stronger, either way you need to go through that process for yourself.

I understand that, probably more than you think I do. I've been through the entire spectrum, considering all the possibilities, including basic sexuality, and over the course of ten years, almost eleven, that I'm a guy interested in girls with a distinct need for female breasts of his own. It's not like I came to this conclusion in a matter of weeks, I've done extensive research, though only a fraction of it I could understand. Ultimately, a major factor in my decisions have been experimentation, including closet-cross-dressing. The feel of a good bra against my skin is indescribable, but more than that, the appearance of myself with a full bust (inserts) was something I fell in love with. Now I want that bust to be real, even if not as big.

The bottom line: YOU need to do YOUR homework. You need to know what 5-alpha reductase is and why it may be important to your situation, or not. You need to know what aromatase is. You need to understand

5-alpha reductase converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone, which counteracts the effects of E. Aromatase is a key enzyme in the conversion of androstenedione to estrone and testosterone to estradiol. Estrone and estradiol are two forms of naturally occurring estrogen, estradiol being one of them most potent in terms for estrogenic effects.

Do I pass my chemistry final?

I'm not trying to say that I'm beating around the issue, that I don't know something in particular or that there is an actual void of knowledge on the subject. It's not the lack of knowledge that's the issue, it's the lack on understanding. Understanding what certain things do is easy, but I have a hard time with grasping the concepts involved in manipulating the status quo. That's why I asked for help, because I know that the individual things do, I just can't seem to grasp the grander picture to piece it all together for what I want.

Good luck and keep us posted on what program you try and any results.

Thank you for the support. I do understand you're trying to be helpful, and you were. I've gotten better results with scholar.google.com, and some better ideas on what to actually search for. ^^

[Pansy-Mae]

I understand that, probably more than you think I do. I've been through the entire spectrum, considering all the possibilities, including basic sexuality, and over the course of ten years, almost eleven, that I'm a guy interested in girls with a distinct need for female breasts of his own. It's not like I came to this conclusion in a matter of weeks, I've done extensive research, though only a fraction of it I could understand. Ultimately, a major factor in my decisions have been experimentation, including closet-cross-dressing. The feel of a good bra against my skin is indescribable, but more than that, the appearance of myself with a full bust (inserts) was something I fell in love with. Now I want that bust to be real, even if not as big.

I'll add my welcome to that of the others.

I'm not going to reply to all the points you've made and the others have replied to, because its getting too big already , however the extract above is, I think, extremely important.
I can can well understand EXACTLY where you are coming from with this, and I think most of the other male members of BN can as well.

I posted this next bit only a few days ago in response to a similar question from another fairly new member:

This whole question of 'maleness' and 'femaleness' is as we all know extremely complex and IMO it is impossible and possibly even detrimental to try to categorise ourselves too tightly.
My view is that there is a continuous spectrum from one end to the other but with many harmonics as well.

Many, if not most, of us on here, are what we have previously described as " inbetweenies" - we simply do not want to go all the way, but we do want to develop breasts.
There is some work done in the US by Dr Anne Vitale which suggests a possible link between the maternal androgen/oestrogen balance during pregnancy which can leave some male babies with a brain that is pre-programmed to expect a higher level of femaleness. This manifests itself in a need to cross-dress, etc, and can cause inner conflicts leading to depression and anger. Taking oestrogens appears to give the brain what it has been artificially seeking and this can have several knock on effects - relieving the inner tensions and giving a feeling of peace and calmness, and most surprisingly ( on the surface), many of us realise that we lose the drive to cross-dress! Ironically, the very act of developing the most obvious outward symbol of femininity removes the need for it!

It may also not be totally irrelevant that you spent 5 years in the marines, it's fairly common for people such as us to take up overtly 'male' occupations, and it has been postulated that this is a sub-concious attempt by your male side to to get rid of the female leanings.

Finally... don't put yourself down! "Uneducated" doesn't sound very much like the real you...and the fact that you dropped out before going to sex-education classes has nothing to do with it, this drive we have is nothing to do with sex!