[flamesabers]

Apparently men that want breasts are likely to play jrpgs. Who knew? lol

This sounds like an interesting topic to have a poll about.

That's interesting to hear about the desire of crossdressing decreasing, I pretty much crossdress abit each day so I kind of wonder how it will effect me.

For me, crossdressing for comfort hasn't changed. It's more of crossdressing to feel feminine or to enhance arousal that has decreased for me.

[SarahSchilling]

Well on another note I just ordered my first batch of PM so I should be starting here shortly.

I'm thinking my beginning regimen is going to look something like this:
Week 1 & Week 2 1000mg PM & 320mg SP extract (per day)
Week 3 1500mg PM & 480mg SP extract (per day)
Week 4 2000mg PM & 640mg SP extract (per day)

And from there I'll raise or lower the dosage depending if I feel like I need to. I'm starting off slow since I want to let my body kind of get use the herbs before I start really heavily on it. So if you have any thoughts I'd like to hear them!

That looks about right to me. Just take a break on the PM for a few days sometime in the first few months.

And on the crossdressing, flame is exactly right. I still wear female undergarments sometimes simply because they tend to fit my current figure better, but don't dress for sexual arousal or to express feminity anymore. Couldn't care less about either at this point lol

Isn't the whole base concept behind the use of creams that topical application soaking through the skin has a more potent effect than consuming, since it doens't pass through the liver or kidneys?

Its still up in the air as to which is the better way to take PM, topically or internally.

But regardless of which works better, it's definitely true that you can absorb chemicals through your skin. Most people know about the ill effects of flouride, but they brush it off saying they filter it out, or drink bottled water.Without considering the amount absorbed through skin during showers, or the fact that food you buy has the same flouridated water in it if it was processed in a city that flouridates their water.

But hey this is a whole different topic.

[flamesabers]

Its still up in the air as to which is the better way to take PM, topically or internally.

I look at this issue more from a convenience and flexibility perspective than what form is more potent. For me it's easier to swallow a few capsules twice a day than massage the cream or spray onto my breasts, especially when I have a busy day or when my breasts feel tender or sore. I think it's also much easier to increase or decrease the amount of pm you take internally than topically.

[SarahSchilling]

Its still up in the air as to which is the better way to take PM, topically or internally.

I look at this issue more from a convenience and flexibility perspective than what form is more potent. For me it's easier to swallow a few capsules twice a day than massage the cream or spray onto my breasts, especially when I have a busy day or when my breasts feel tender or sore. I think it's also much easier to increase or decrease the amount of pm you take internally than topically.

Agreed. I simply don't have the time for it since going back to college.

Also, the warning about not getting any PM cream on your nipples always worried me....I mean really, I don't think I can keep it off them during a massage, they're getting rather large after all lol

[flamesabers]

Also, the warning about not getting any PM cream on your nipples always worried me....

This is news to me. I can understand not wanting to get the cream inside the lactiferous ducts. However, it makes me wonder how effective can the cream be or how difficult it would be to use if you can't apply it to one of the developing parts of the breast.

I don't think I can keep it off them during a massage, they're getting rather large after all lol

Same here.

[bryony]

There is a lot of doubt over the efficacy of PM cream

Firstly, when deoxymiroestrol is exposed to the oxygen in air, it is converted to miroestrol, and deoxymiroestrol is considered to be the active ingredient - so anything your rub in will get converted to the weaker, possibly even ineffective, miroestrol.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10691701

Secondly, and more importantly, phytoestrogens seem to need to be processed in the liver in order to be effective.

Long and untidy URL pointing to a PDF

(NB HepG2 is an established culture of liver cells)

(I have seen it proposed in this forum that the liver processes miroestrol into deoxymiroestrol, but could not find a paper that explicitly says this)

Hope this is useful...

B.

[flamesabers]

Thank you for the links.

I'm not a biology or chemistry major so some of the information in the report went over my head, but I got the point that pm may need to be metabolized for it to produce estrogenic activity. Seeing as the report is nearly ten years old, I wonder if there was any follow-up research done to determine the accuracy of its results?

[bryony]

Thank you for the links.

I'm not a biology or chemistry major so some of the information in the report went over my head, but I got the point that pm may need to be metabolized for it to produce estrogenic activity. Seeing as the report is nearly ten years old, I wonder if there was any follow-up research done to determine the accuracy of its results?

A lot goes over my head too - I generally just look at the abstract or conclusions.

It looks like quite a lot of work was done about that time. There's another reference here http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/20...223598.php
from 2000 which reaffirms the idea that miroestrol is a "wild goose":

"The growth-promoting effect of them on MCF-7 human breast cancer cells showed the strongest activity with (+)-deoxymiroestrol. Interestingly, it was easily converted into (+)-miroestrol and (+)-isomiroestrol by aerial oxidation, suggesting that (+)-deoxymiroestrol may be the actual phytoestrogen of P. mirifica"

In other words, initial analyses most saw miroestrol in this highly estrogenic plant and assumed that it was the major player. However, further testing showed that the activity was strongest with dexoymiroestrol, but as this readily converts to miroestrol in air, that's where the confusion occurred.

Since cream by its very nature is exposed to air, you are pretty much guaranteed to get the weakest effect.

Couple that with the tests that show that metabolisation is needed also, I reckon cream is just the vendor's way of making more money.

I think they tend to recommend it as a supplement to the pills, so you grow anyway, and rubbing it on ensures you massage, which is generally held to be a Good Thing. But in terms of efficacy, I doubt whether it will do more than Wild Yam or your favourite brand of cold cream.

That said, I'm no expert, feel free to disregard!

B.

[Marisa]

That's interesting to hear about the desire of crossdressing decreasing, I pretty much crossdress abit each day so I kind of wonder how it will effect me.

For me, crossdressing for comfort hasn't changed. It's more of crossdressing to feel feminine or to enhance arousal that has decreased for me.

And on the crossdressing, flame is exactly right. I still wear female undergarments sometimes simply because they tend to fit my current figure better, but don't dress for sexual arousal or to express feminity anymore. Couldn't care less about either at this point lol

Oh...I see I'm the same way. I crossdress for comfort, and not really to express femininity or for arousal. And even if I had a waning interest in crossdressing I wouldn't have a choice in some things since I've pretty much phased some of my male clothes out for female clothes.

Well on another note I just ordered my first batch of PM so I should be starting here shortly.

I'm thinking my beginning regimen is going to look something like this:
Week 1 & Week 2 1000mg PM & 320mg SP extract (per day)
Week 3 1500mg PM & 480mg SP extract (per day)
Week 4 2000mg PM & 640mg SP extract (per day)

And from there I'll raise or lower the dosage depending if I feel like I need to. I'm starting off slow since I want to let my body kind of get use the herbs before I start really heavily on it. So if you have any thoughts I'd like to hear them!

That looks about right to me. Just take a break on the PM for a few days sometime in the first few months.

Hmmm...is that to prevent stalling? I was starting to notice that some people do this in their programs and was going to ask if and when I should start considering going CT for a couple of days.

[flamesabers]

That looks about right to me. Just take a break on the PM for a few days sometime in the first few months.

Hmmm...is that to prevent stalling? I was starting to notice that some people do this in their programs and was going to ask if and when I should start considering going CT for a couple of days.

That's one reason why some people go CT. I know a few people like Lenneth have reported getting a growth spurt while going CT. Another reason is to avoid brain rewiring or to maintain some functionality with their male body parts.

If you decide to go CT I would recommend waiting until at least your second month since you'll be spending the first month building up to 2,000mg of pm. When going CT you may experience unpleasant symptoms like trouble sleeping or lack of energy. I recently tried going CT and by the end of day 3 I decided to go back on pm. I didn't like feeling lazy and unfocused.

I think once you spend some time getting used to pm you'll get a sense of if and when you should go CT. I've been taking pm for nearly 3 months and I've made good progress even though I have only recently went CT.