[Lenneth]

Ignoring the morality question which is the bigger one, older people having babies is actually good for the gene pool. If you make it to old age, you have demonstrated that your genetic makeup is good for survival and longevity. Just what you would want in a gene pool. I don't think the morality side of it belongs on this forum. And it's always better to eat someone else's jelly beans, if they eat them with you.

Hmmm. If you have that genetic makeup, you don't need to wait until old age to father the kids, because they will inherit those qualities if you start early; but I'm sure I've read that sperm from older people tends to be more deformed. (God knows what the sperm from older people who take estrogen is like).

Of course, if you want to be a really harsh Darwinist, you could say that if every father waited until old age, then the ones who produce deformed sperm in old age will die out, and that _will_ strengthen the gene pool. But, as long as young people keep breeding, the ones who wait until old age, in my view, will be disadvantaged.

It's all rather moot, as modern society promotes reverse evolution; in high-welfare countries, successful genes produce productive, intelligent people who work hard and pay taxes, and usually restrict the number of kids they have in order to care better for the ones that they do have; they generally can't afford more because they pay so much tax in order to provide for the inheritors of the less successful genes. The less intelligent, but manual labor/welfare class. These people are actively encouraged by the state to breed endlessly as it becomes their major form of income, and they will very soon outnumber the useful members of society, in the UK at least. That's probably why we have opened the doors to mass immigration, but the joke is that many of them come here to claim benefit.

The time of the "Marching Morons" is upon us; and we've made a head start by electing them to represent us in our parliament.

B. (not in any way discussing morality)

I don't think this has anything to do with morality. This is also true in America. The intelligent people are choosing not to have children while we export all of our manual labor to people that breed like rabbits. This is backfiring in America as well. I think we are well on our way to Idiocracy. (stupid movie, but excellent premise)

Yes we are, and our idiotic government is only throwing gas on that particular fire.

[Moobdood]

Um could we please not get too much off topic here? Anyway my Finasteride 5mg pills came in today..Of course i'm out of PM when it happens lol I ordered more but I'm gonna take 1 pill a day of Finasteride with PM when it comes in and see how that goes I hear also Saw Palmetto blocks DHT too?

[bryony]

Um could we please not get too much off topic here?
...

Whoops! Sorry about that. Shame there isn't a general chat forum here, a sort of "off-topic" redirect. I probably have more in common with the people who write here than most of the other people that I know.

B.

[Squirrel with boobs]

[/quote]

Short answer is nothing, but the long answer is more interesting.

Standard T levels mean that men are pretty much always controlled by their libido. I find that using PM means my libido is under my control. I like it that way, mainly because I'm not happy with what my libido makes me want to do. However, I'm still perfectly capable of having a sexual relationship.

B.
[/quote]

great answer byrony.. i fully agree. i am glad to rule my (sexual) mood than it run me...

[Lenneth]

Um could we please not get too much off topic here?

Sorry

I hear also Saw Palmetto blocks DHT too?

Yes it does

[Moobdood]

Im looking to refill my finicar prescription..if i want accellerated effects should i stick with 5mg? that should be enough to block dht right? How much saw palmetto would i need to block dht?

[bryony]

Im looking to refill my finicar prescription..if i want accellerated effects should i stick with 5mg? that should be enough to block dht right? How much saw palmetto would i need to block dht?

When you say "accelerated effects", are you talking about breast growth? If so, I think there is general agreement that nature takes its course, and you still need to go through the tanner stages that take around 3 years. Real breast growth is a matter of cell division for breast ductal tissue, and there's no real way to speed that up. You may well be able to affect where new fat is deposited, though unless you are thin now you may want to lose fat in male areas before gaining more weight.

In short, patience is the name of the game... but 3 years goes quite quickly...

B.

[Moobdood]

I just wanted to clarify something..So Fincar blocks DHT but not testosterone..meaning it will help with breast growth while not totally getting rid of testosterone? While spiro totally gets rid of testosterone..would spiro be more effective for breast growth than fincar?

[chrishoney]

Anything that blocks conversion of T to DHT or the action of DHT itself will minimize the virulizing effects of DHT (male pattern baldness, body hair, pungent body odor and those other male characteristics.) T mainly affects muscle growth and the ability to achieve and maintain erections. Another benefit of blocking conversion to DHT is that excess T can be aromatized to estradiol by the body. The endocrine system has a set level of T it tries to maintain in the body and either aromatizes it to estrogen or converts it into DHT. If you can't make DHT, your system will make estradiol.

Anything that inhibits production of T in the first place will also decrease DHT and its effects, but there won't be any excess T to aromatize into estradiol.

You just need to decide which way you want to decrease DHT and which medication has the least undesirable side effects

[ooBobbi]

Hi, I have a question about Saw Palmetto. I am working at my conversion, and using only natural supplements. I am using Fenugreek, soy isoflavins, black cohosh, Pueraria Mirifica, and had been using Saw Palmetto.

After 2 months I do have size A cups and very sensitive breasts and nipples always erect, but...

I noticed strong hair growth on my arms, chest, legs, and even head hair.

My body and head hair is thicker, longer, darker and faster growing than ever before.

This inspired me to research my supplements once again. I found some articles that indicate that Saw Palmetto is an anti-androgen, and I found some others that say it is a anti-ESTROGEN. I start to wonder if it just depends on who is promoting it, ie, mens health, womens health etc.

Would the Saw be responsible for my increased hair and hair growth?

If it is, is that because saw is INCREASING my testosterone?

Thanks to anyone who can help clear up confusion on this matter.