Yes, I am at it again with PubMed. This time to answer the question about Chinese Peony as an anti-androgen. First, find the previous bibliographic reference:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693613/#A3644R7
then scroll down to reference seven (7), and click the link to:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1897494
and find the below. Note that this experiment was in-vitro (petri dish) and not a clinical trial so there is no prediction what will be the positive or negative effects on a human - so be cautious!
Their conclusion was that the active substances in Chinese peony did two things - decrease the production of testosterone and increase the aromatization of testosterone into estradiol by ovarian tissue - a double bonus! Although they reported statistically significant findings, they did not report the absolute values so we do not know just how effective this may be compared to other treatments. Furthermore, the tissues tested were only ovarian which males do not have. Finally, note that glycyrrhizic acid is by definition the primary active substance in licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra) so beware the side effects.
Hope this adds to the discussion.
****************************************************************************
Am J Chin Med. 1991;19(1):73-8.
Effect of paeoniflorin, glycyrrhizin and glycyrrhetic acid on ovarian androgen production.
Takeuchi T, Nishii O, Okamura T, Yaginuma T.
Source
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
We have shown that traditional herbal medicine, Shakuyaku-Kanzo-To consisted of Shakuyaku and Kanzo decreased serum testosterone levels in woman and rat. Therefore, paeoniflorin and glycyrrhizin, a main component of Shakuyaku and Kanzo, respectively, and glycyrrhetic acid, a metabolite of glycyrrhizin in vivo, were investigated for the steroid production in the rat ovary on the morning of proestrus. The homogenized tissues of one ovary were incubated in the Dulbecco's modified Eagle medium (pH 7.5) with 100 micrograms/ml of paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin and the medium only (the control) at 37 degrees C for 270 min. After the centrifugation, the concentrations of delta 4-androstenedione, testosterone and estradiol in the supernatants were determined by RIA. The production of the hormones expressed by [concentration x supernatant volume/weight of the ovary] was compared to the control. Paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin decreased significantly the testosterone production but did not change that of delta 4-androstenedione and estradiol. Testosterone/delta 4-androstenedione production ratio was lowered significantly by paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin. Estradiol/testosterone production ratio was increased significantly by glycyrrhetic acid and not changed by paeoniflorin and glycyrrhizin. These results suggest that paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin affect the conversion between delta 4-androstenedione and testosterone to inhibit testosterone synthesis and stimulate the aromatase activity to promote estradiol synthesis by the direct action on the rat proestrous ovary.
PMID:
1897494
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693613/#A3644R7
then scroll down to reference seven (7), and click the link to:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1897494
and find the below. Note that this experiment was in-vitro (petri dish) and not a clinical trial so there is no prediction what will be the positive or negative effects on a human - so be cautious!
Their conclusion was that the active substances in Chinese peony did two things - decrease the production of testosterone and increase the aromatization of testosterone into estradiol by ovarian tissue - a double bonus! Although they reported statistically significant findings, they did not report the absolute values so we do not know just how effective this may be compared to other treatments. Furthermore, the tissues tested were only ovarian which males do not have. Finally, note that glycyrrhizic acid is by definition the primary active substance in licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra) so beware the side effects.
Hope this adds to the discussion.
****************************************************************************
Am J Chin Med. 1991;19(1):73-8.
Effect of paeoniflorin, glycyrrhizin and glycyrrhetic acid on ovarian androgen production.
Takeuchi T, Nishii O, Okamura T, Yaginuma T.
Source
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
We have shown that traditional herbal medicine, Shakuyaku-Kanzo-To consisted of Shakuyaku and Kanzo decreased serum testosterone levels in woman and rat. Therefore, paeoniflorin and glycyrrhizin, a main component of Shakuyaku and Kanzo, respectively, and glycyrrhetic acid, a metabolite of glycyrrhizin in vivo, were investigated for the steroid production in the rat ovary on the morning of proestrus. The homogenized tissues of one ovary were incubated in the Dulbecco's modified Eagle medium (pH 7.5) with 100 micrograms/ml of paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin and the medium only (the control) at 37 degrees C for 270 min. After the centrifugation, the concentrations of delta 4-androstenedione, testosterone and estradiol in the supernatants were determined by RIA. The production of the hormones expressed by [concentration x supernatant volume/weight of the ovary] was compared to the control. Paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin decreased significantly the testosterone production but did not change that of delta 4-androstenedione and estradiol. Testosterone/delta 4-androstenedione production ratio was lowered significantly by paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin. Estradiol/testosterone production ratio was increased significantly by glycyrrhetic acid and not changed by paeoniflorin and glycyrrhizin. These results suggest that paeoniflorin, glycyrrhetic acid and glycyrrhizin affect the conversion between delta 4-androstenedione and testosterone to inhibit testosterone synthesis and stimulate the aromatase activity to promote estradiol synthesis by the direct action on the rat proestrous ovary.
PMID:
1897494
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
OH! This is a different article than the one you linked me to in PM!
Andd.......... Drat! This confirms my suspicions! White Peony is only useful as a pro-aromatase in genetic women.
That leaves hops alone as the only proven effective way to increase aromatase in individuals who do not possess ovaries.
MAYBEEE BO... But no one actually knows exactly what's in BO. NO ONE has done a chemical analyses, that I know of.
Perhaps if I add white peony and then try BO again... BO's insanely expensive though.
Andd.......... Drat! This confirms my suspicions! White Peony is only useful as a pro-aromatase in genetic women.
That leaves hops alone as the only proven effective way to increase aromatase in individuals who do not possess ovaries.
MAYBEEE BO... But no one actually knows exactly what's in BO. NO ONE has done a chemical analyses, that I know of.
Perhaps if I add white peony and then try BO again... BO's insanely expensive though.
(09-08-2013, 02:59 AM)smallfry Wrote: Have you thought about swansons raw glandular? I'm thinking about trying that for a couple weeks.
Swanson's only puts 250mg per capsule BO and 80mg BP per capsule BP.
Assuming about 400mg BO per BB pill, which typical male daily amount is 8 pills, target is 3200mg...
Assuming 100mg BP per BB pill, you also need 800mg pituitary glandular.
Assuming you DON'T need any additional thyroid support... (BB has kelp for thyroid)...
So combined you'd need 13 Swanson's BO, and 10 Swanson's BP per day.
Costs then become quite high. A bottle of BO would last only 4 days and a bottle of BP 6. Getting them to nice round numbers, 13 bottles of BO would last 2 months (60 days) and 6 bottles of BP for the same. A two month (60 day) supply from Swanson's then adds up to almost 120 dollars. A two month supply of BB at similar doses would be significantly more, yes, but still. $60 a month for JUST estrogens is quite high compared to how much I'm presently spending. The bulk herbs make the blocking and replacing method using PM + spearmint + chinese skullcap method quite cheap.
My PM cost me $270 waaaaaay back in January and I haven't even made a serious dent in it yet. My kilo of extract will likely last a good few years. 270/36 = LESS THAN $8 a month! I'm actually having to figure out more ways to use it faster, or it'd last long past expiration which is only a few years.
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