I'm a flat-chested biological male - fairly fit for my height, and little to no flab to speak of. My goal with NBE is something in the range of a B or C cup, and I'd like to go with some form of NBE to get there (no surgery/forms). I know many folks here are on PM permanently, but one of my starting goals is to eventually get to the point where they stay shape without any "maintenance."

You could say I'd like to "wean" myself off all forms of enhancement eventually, and just have a pair that hang out forever. From all the reading I've done, it sounds like that requires the development of a lot of breast tissue to hold the shape.

I've also looked at anti-androgens and I'd rather not use them if possible - one of my goals is also to keep my junk below. I just want to enhance what's above

Is using a combo of Noogleberry and PM the most effective way to do this?

I'm a flat-chested biological male - fairly fit for my height, and little to no flab to speak of. My goal with NBE is something in the range of a B or C cup, and I'd like to go with some form of NBE to get there (no surgery/forms). I know many folks here are on PM permanently, but one of my starting goals is to eventually get to the point where they stay shape without any "maintenance."

You could say I'd like to "wean" myself off all forms of enhancement eventually, and just have a pair that hang out forever. From all the reading I've done, it sounds like that requires the development of a lot of breast tissue to hold the shape.

I've also looked at anti-androgens and I'd rather not use them if possible - one of my goals is also to keep my junk below. I just want to enhance what's above

Is using a combo of Noogleberry and PM the most effective way to do this?

I sent you a private message

Hello lightwinder.

I'm slightly confused by your goals. You want to get to the point of having breasts without needing a maintenance dose, but also preserving your functionality? That sounds a bit contradictory to me.

To my knowledge, there's no genetic male here who has achieved what you're seeking. Of the few members I know of that have gone anywhere from a few months to a year or more of not taking NBE herbs, all have experienced a reduction of their breast size. Breast tissue is permanent, the fat deposits in your breasts are not. The loss in breast size is even a problem for genetic women may experience as they lose weight or experience changes with their hormones.

The one hypothetical way I can think of to keep your breasts fully with no maintenance dose is to alter your hormones to the extent that it's virtually similar to a genetic woman's. If you were somehow able to do that, I suspect your functionality would be in a significant decline, if not nonexistent.

Functionality varies from person to person. Some lose it all together, some get a reduction, some get increased activity. There is no saying for sure what will happen as far as that goes. You can always try something for a short time and stop if you don't like the results. For me functionality and size was virtually unchanged with 1000mg - 2000mg PM daily and 1800mg to 3600mg SP since Easter. Then again I'm only thirty and judging by my body hair, and lack of on my head, I have T to spare.

I'm slightly confused by your goals. You want to get to the point of having breasts without needing a maintenance dose, but also preserving your functionality? That sounds a bit contradictory to me.

To my knowledge, there's no genetic male here who has achieved what you're seeking. Of the few members I know of that have gone anywhere from a few months to a year or more of not taking NBE herbs, all have experienced a reduction of their breast size. Breast tissue is permanent, the fat deposits in your breasts are not. The loss in breast size is even a problem for genetic women may experience as they lose weight or experience changes with their hormones.

Thanks for the reality check - it sounds like some kind of maintenance is required. One thing that comes to mind however, is the question of "over-growth." You mentioned that breasts naturally shrink with hormone loss for both genders. Do they wither away completely, or do they just shrink down to a moderate size?
If I vigorously promoted breast growth to a C cup (or D if it was possible) over several years and then completely stopped all maintenance.... would there be enough breast tissue left without the fat to give a permanent A or B cup?

Do they wither away completely, or do they just shrink down to a moderate size?

I suspect the latter is much more likely to happen, as the development of breast tissue is permanent. However, what constitutes a moderate size I think is a very subjective measurement I think.

If I vigorously promoted breast growth to a C cup (or D if it was possible) over several years and then completely stopped all maintenance.... would there be enough breast tissue left without the fat to give a permanent A or B cup?

Well, for starters, there's no guarantee you're going to get to a C or D cup in the first place. Secondly, there's no way to know for sure how much volume your breasts will have after you go several years or more with no maintenance dose. This may sound a bit vain, but even if you have an adequate volume of breast tissue with no maintenance dose, you may not like the appearance of your shrunken breasts. To get a ballpark figure of how much shrinkage you may experience, I suggest researching how much of a decrease other members have experienced while going several months or more without NBE herbs.

I may be misunderstanding your intentions, but it sounds like you've already set your mind on what you want to do after the journey before your journey with NBE has even begun. Is it just about maintaining functionality? I can understand not wanting to have to take pills every day or having to buy them. However, if your focus is on wanting to have breasts but otherwise fully maintaining your functionality and male hormonal levels, maybe NBE isn't in your best interests? I think there's a lot more to NBE than simply whether or not you want to have breasts. I think it's also about whether you're willing to accept the other feminizing changes necessary to grow breasts.

I've gotten a fairly good start I think with NBE, and I'm not even putting a lot of thought in what I'm going to do after I reach the finish line. As far as I'm concerned, I have several years to go before having to come to a decision on that.

Is there a finish line, apart from the one we all ultimately have? Even targets tend to shift as and when one gets there or fails to do so, but truly permanent breast growth is with us for life.

I suggest researching how much of a decrease other members have experienced while going several months or more without NBE herbs.

Already looking into it - that also gives my some idea of the shape results too, not just size.

Well, for starters, there's no guarantee you're going to get to a C or D cup in the first place.

This is where my question about external and internal stimulation comes from. I'd like to explore all possibilities for breast growth, to really try to promote it as much as possible without permanent anti-androgens such as Bovine Ovary. Saw Palmetto I'd definitely look into though, considering froger's experience shows that how one reacts to these herbs is extremely unique for each person.

I haven't been able to find much on doing Noogleberry + PM at the same time to maximize growth, as it seems most folks in the sub-forum are on just PM or PM + massage. I've found sites and testimonials from women that it helps, but have you seen the external + internal work for men too?

I may be misunderstanding your intentions, but it sounds like you've already set your mind on what you want to do after the journey before your journey with NBE has even begun. Is it just about maintaining functionality? I can understand not wanting to have to take pills every day or having to buy them. However, if your focus is on wanting to have breasts but otherwise fully maintaining your functionality and male hormonal levels, maybe NBE isn't in your best interests? I think there's a lot more to NBE than simply whether or not you want to have breasts. I think it's also about whether you're willing to accept the other feminizing changes necessary to grow breasts.

It's about the taking pills every day thing The loss of functionality is minor to that, but also a consideration. And by functionality I should be specific - being able to "get up" and have an orgasm. Loss of color and other changes such as a lower libedo are more than okay - in fact I could welcome those. It's more about still being able to please a girlfriend that I'd rather not loose, and it sounds like from all the posts that I've read that even with heavy NBE treatment there's still some of this ability. Though what actually happens to me while on NBE is really unknown until I'm already down that path and experiment.

My goals and outlook in a year after NBE might drastically change and the other effects of NBE might be appealing enough to continue with maintenance doses, so it's best to try first as you say. Will take it more with an open mind

I haven't been able to find much on doing Noogleberry + PM at the same time to maximize growth, as it seems most folks in the sub-forum are on just PM or PM + massage. I've found sites and testimonials from women that it helps, but have you seen the external + internal work for men too?

Not that I'm aware of. Occasionally genetic males post about using a noogleberry or something similar, but I don't think there's a strong correlation between breast size and usage of a suction device.

I may be misunderstanding your intentions, but it sounds like you've already set your mind on what you want to do after the journey before your journey with NBE has even begun. Is it just about maintaining functionality? I can understand not wanting to have to take pills every day or having to buy them. However, if your focus is on wanting to have breasts but otherwise fully maintaining your functionality and male hormonal levels, maybe NBE isn't in your best interests? I think there's a lot more to NBE than simply whether or not you want to have breasts. I think it's also about whether you're willing to accept the other feminizing changes necessary to grow breasts.

It's about the taking pills every day thing The loss of functionality is minor to that, but also a consideration. And by functionality I should be specific - being able to "get up" and have an orgasm. Loss of color and other changes such as a lower libedo are more than okay - in fact I could welcome those. It's more about still being able to please a girlfriend that I'd rather not loose, and it sounds like from all the posts that I've read that even with heavy NBE treatment there's still some of this ability. Though what actually happens to me while on NBE is really unknown until I'm already down that path and experiment.

My goals and outlook in a year after NBE might drastically change and the other effects of NBE might be appealing enough to continue with maintenance doses, so it's best to try first as you say. Will take it more with an open mind

Even though you may not loose functionality, having a significantly lower libdo can still strain a relationship I think. I don't know if you have told her, but I think this is why it's all the more reason why it's so important about disclosing your pursuit of NBE to one's significant other. She should know if your libido starts to decline it has nothing to do with her.

Yeah. YMWV. Your Mileage Will Vary. Though I must stress that sabers was NOT overstating the loss problem. EVERYONE who loses hormones will experience it. And it's NOT any sort of pretty loss either. You'll go from nice, full, perky boobs to this saggy flabs of skin look. Seriously. You WILL need to "maintain". Whatever that actually means for you.

It does mean you will be on at LEAST PM for the rest of your life unless you completely change you mind and get them surgically removed. Though the few months in point which is where you'll be most likely to have noticed any changes to your functionality that MIGHT occur by... That point, you won't have noticeable enough development (most likely!) to worry about just stopping and everything goes away.

You ought to be able to try it out, see what happens function-wise, and if you don't like, just stop.

But yeah. It's all over the place on what may or may not happen there. You will almost inevitably lose sperm. You won't be able to get her pregnant. But depending on your own personal view on things that might be a good thing.

Some people completely lose libido and can't even get it up. Others mostly lose it but can still sort of function, and some even gain a whole new kind of libido.