[PattiJT]

Hello again. Been absent a while, things happening. Some by design and some, regrettably, not. As a result, there are a few things I have to report.
As stated before, I had been taking Premarin and a generic Propecia for about a year before discovering this site. Had accomplished growth to nearly B cups prior to discontinuing the Premarin and anti-androgen regimen, and going to PM with no AA. The first 2 months of PM use was in conjunction with a lowered dose of Premarin to use up the remaining supply of Premarin. Even though I was getting it through Inhouse pharmacy, it was becoming more expensive at the dose I was taking, and the testimonials for PM, as well as the seemingly ridiculously low cost of PM, led me to giving it a try. With reduced Premarin, I took 2000mg of PM daily. My #1 observation on PM was the fact that both my breasts evened out, when prior to PM, one breast was about 1/4 inch less in projection. That was a pleasant discovery.
#2 observation was that my desire to crossdress decreased, which upset me a bit, though I felt great. Maybe the fact that I retired at almost the same time had something to do with my attitude, though I was honestly anticipating having more time to spend crossdressing, thus the fact that not feeling like crossdressing much was a bit disconcerting.
#3, was when I noticed that I was not having as difficult a time keeping warm when the cold weather usually meant I needed more layers to keep warm. A welcome effect that I will attribute to PM, as no other changes, such as dietary, were undertaken at that time.
#4, my wife mentioned that my skin tone appeared better, along with a slight improvement in facial wrinkles. Again, I attribute those to PM. A very pleasant surprise.
Now for some not-so-nices. About 2 and 1/2 months ago, I let my doctor convince me that my testerone level of 20 was not a grand thing. So I let her give me a shot of T. Almost immediately I began adding pounds. Not many, but all unwelcome nonetheless. That seemed to be the only effect.
About 3 weeks ago, she stuck me again. Now the pounds came again, to the tune of almost 18 since this T adventure began. Now, I've never been heavy, and never had a hard time dropping a few pounds here and there. This gain, however, has proven to be quite another story. So, for vanitys' sake, some of my favorite foods are on hold untill I get back to where I was.
The most unwelcome change, though, has taken place with my libido. My little "companion" has rediscovered his unruly attitude, and also grown physically, as have his partners-in-crime. As my wife is not much into sex anymore, this was a bit of irony.
Shortly after I received the first T shot, I ran out of PM, and had decided to wait a while in order to raise my T levels without influence of any type of estrogen. I now know there will be no more shots for me, nor any of the androgel she said would come after the level came up. The return of my crossdressing desires with the T shots was also an interesting development.
Back to the PM effects now. #5, I can attest to the fact that breasts can continue to grow even after PM is discontinued. This may be good/bad news depending on personal goals. I welcome the fact that my measurements, taken 5 weeks after stopping PM, show that I have added 3/4" of bust size. Also, my legs have rounded out, and my upper thighs are 1" larger now. I would be willing to bet that those increases are not due to rising T. Regrettably, my swelling waist size has brought the corsets back. However, I shall overcome!!
I have now been back on PM for a week, and contrary to conventional wisdom, am back to using 3000mg a day. And considering going higher, along with the AA again, also at an increased dose. I shall be oh-so-happy if I can get the T back to the 20 that it was before this mis-adventure. Strangely enough, my whole journey with NBE and slight feminization, prior to recently, had been undertaken with only personal research, and no advice from medical professionals. I had been getting good results. However, as soon as I let a doctor get involved, things degenerated. Ironic.
#6. First, I must explain that I have occasionally used a device similar to the good old Noogleberry. Mine is self-constructed. But I used it wildly inconsistently, having not had much for noticeable results. Other than sore breasts!! I must admit to being a bit extreme in it's use, as I will use it for at least an hour at a time, and will pump and maintain the suction to a point just below where it will cause what I call "waterspots", which some may call water blisters. Experience has shown me just what I can get away with. I have noticed, over time, that I cannot pull as much into the cup as I used to. This, I attribute to the fact that I now have a different sort of tissue in my breasts than I had when I started. In itself, this is not of much concern, as I believe that Noogling is simply providing an additional opportunity for growth. I will also note that wearing a properly fitting underwire bra, with the cups removed, after Noogling and at other times, has helped in shaping my breasts. While being a simple matter, it has helped a lot.
Now for the #6 observation. When I had finished "pumping up" a few nights ago, after I removed them, I was shocked to see that I had "leaked" into my cups!! Upon further"examination", I found that the liquid had indeed come from the nipples. However, there was not much more to be had. Just enough to confirm where it had come from. Seems that it only really happened when the vacuum was in place. I am now intrigued by the fact that it can be induced, BUT, also in a bit of a quandary. On one hand, it would be so very wonderful to be able to produce something for those times my wife likes to nuzzle my breasts, but I have to wonder if they would be prone to just "dribble" sometime when out in public. While they do stick out noticeably in nearly any kind of clothing, I have never had as much as one comment. (That I heard, anyway). Wet spots on the front of my t-shirt in obvious locations may be a whole different affair!!
This has become quite lengthy, and while I may have more to say, this is enough for the time being. I do feel the necessity to add, and confirm, that many of the things that are said here about PM are true. While not all will apply to everyone, they are nonetheless factual, and should be considered when choosing any regimen to proceed with. I, for one, amd happy with everything PM has done to and for me, and have every intention of "going for the gusto"!! I suspect I will be even more pleased when I eliminate this belly growth, as my breasts should look even nicer against a smaller torso. Will have to get rid of it as soon as possible, tho, as sun-bathing season is nearly here!!
Take care, and great results to all!! Patti

[bryony]

#2 observation was that my desire to crossdress decreased, which upset me a bit, though I felt great. Maybe the fact that I retired at almost the same time had something to do with my attitude, though I was honestly anticipating having more time to spend crossdressing, thus the fact that not feeling like crossdressing much was a bit disconcerting.

Hi Patti,

search for the string "testosterone toxicity" - you'll a reference, and probably the text, of a paper by Dr Anne Vitale. It's a symptom of what she calls having a "transsexual brain", caused by insufficient androgen exposure in the womb. The theory goes that having a female brain without sufficient estrogen causes it to want to express femininity in other ways. Taking estrogen rebalances it and makes the desire/need to cross-dress go away.

Her paper talks about how, for some poor people who have gone the orthodox route up to and including passing the "real life" test and GRS, they find that they want to go back to being men, start taking androgens and immediately start wanting to cross dress again.

It's an interesting read.

B.

[sfem]

That's a lot to review and mull over Patti. Thank you for taking the time to post such an insightful article. I think you'll find that PM does what you want, although I do wonder if it will feel slow to you compared to Premarin. The cross dressing effect seems to be fairly common in our crowd, but not universal. You're normal that way as far as I am concerned. My T is under 30. I can identify with thinking about the hormone balance in my body and wondering if I should be proactive with it. It sounds like your experiment didn't turn out good for you. I hope you are more successful getting back to the levels you found better for you. I can't comment about the pumping stuff, never had tried it or wanted to try it myself. It sounds like just a big owie to me.

[EricaB]

If you decide to go back on Propecia as an anti-androgen, it can be costly but there are ways to get it inexpensively. Propecia is sold for baldness and is the brand name for finasteride. Proscar is sold for prostate enlargement and also is the brand name for finasteride. Propecia is 1mg finasteride, Proscar is 5mg finasteride. I think Propecia currently costs maybe $75 per month. You can get generic finasteride (5mg) at Walmart for $28 for 3 month supply which is cheaper than by using my insurance. You do need a prescription from your doc, but that shouldn't be all that difficult to get.

I started using Propecia in 1998 or 1999. Paid through the nose for it. Recently I asked my new doc for my annual prescription and he suggested the generic finasteride 5mg. Maybe I lucked out on the doc. But I've been saving about $60 per month for the past 3 years and I still have my hair or most of it.

As a side note, you can also get Spironolactone at Walmart for $10 for a 3 month supply of 25mg pills. In addition to its other uses, it is often used as an anti-androgen when a male is transitioning to female so it's pretty potent stuff, although I am not sure what the dosage is for that application.

[PattiJT]

Thanks, Erica, The Wal-mart info is appreciated. However, at this point , a prescription is not something I want to deal with. While I'm quite sure that my hairless torso and B size breasts have aroused some curiousity in my doctor, and she may be receptive to the idea, that's a road and can or worms that my wife and I are not ready to open. With the price of PM as cheap as it is, and Fincar (generic Proscar 5 mg) about 35 cents a day, from the good ole UK, it really isn't worth the trouble. I am currently using Siterone (generic Androcur), and when that runs low, will go back to the Fincar, as that was what I used earlier when I was using Premarin. Actually, Fincar and Siterone work equally well, so it will probably just be a matter of the price of both when I get ready to reorder.
There is also a new generic form of Premarin, I think it's called Estrin, that is vastly cheaper that Premarin. It's a while till I need to reorder the anti androgen, but now I'm considering trying a low dose Estrin with the PM, since I can get it from the same source. Having had a years' + use of Premarin, I expect no problems should I do that. Where the normal dose of Premarin starts at about 5mg minimum, (for TGs) , when used in conjunction with PM, I would expect to use no more than 1.25mg/day. And possibly lower the dose of PM as well. My first 2 months of PM use was done at the same time as I was finishing my suppy of Premarin, with no ill effects, so expect the same with Estrin. I will probably set up for a 6 month run, and if no significant growth occurs, figure I have topped out. I will (correctly, I hope) assume that having been off everything for over a month while conducting the failed T experiment, and not losing any breast size, that once I feel that growth has leveled off and I stop again, that what I have should stay there. With one caveat, that being that since I picked up growth around my upper thighs, I may continue to see if that increases. It's all wonderfully confusing, isn't it? At least I have found out what works for me, and doesn't produce ugly side-effects, so it's more a matter of which, how much, and how long.
I honestly don't know if I can tolerate much more breast growth, anyway. Currently, my underbust measurement is 38", and across the nipples is 44". Most calculations will say that is larger than a B cup, but my bras don't lie. Most of my bras (I won't count them) are Bs, with a couple Cs and even one D. They all fill out equally well, and we all know that sizes are more or less relative, as they can vary a LOT by manufacturer. And I really don't feel like investing in a whole new lot of them. If you're at all into color-coordinating, you know how many that could be!!
Now, I'd like to toss out another question. Only a curiousity, but it drives me nuts. How come sometimes my breasts can be pert at one time, kinda poking out, then a minute later become rounded across the front?? And, no, it's not the weather, or temperature. Any ideas? Little things like this make me wonder. Anyhow, take care, all, and enjoy!! Patti

[sfem]

That nipple shape question is one I would love an answer to. That drives me nuts. It also makes my wife a bit crazy because when mine get rounded, they are really extended and round. For some reason that seems to make her want to pinch them. She's just playing but it can hurt.

[luk]

cool to here they can still grow even after off them
and yer i had like a sticky watery stuck leak out dont know what it is thought unless any one has to add to this?

[EricaB]

sfem, Have you considered telling your wife that if she wants to play with them that she has to take you to dinner and a movie first?

[PattiJT]

Erica,
Would that be like having your cake and eating it, too?
So many women seem to be concerned with their breast size as an "attractivity"(?) item. Myself, I am more drawn to a woman who is in proportion. I've never been crazy about huge breasts. I don't find them attractive, and feel that they must be quite uncomfortable. Frankly, some that I have seen should be on the cover of a dairy magazine. However, to each their own. I just can't imagine the inconvenience it involves. My sister, and her daughter still in high school, have both had breast reductions. Believe me when I say it has done wonders for their self-confidence and self esteem. If the procedure had been available earlier for my mother, she may well have done it also.
Knowing family history, I think I am going to have to tread very lightly here. While I know what does what to my body, and the effects that go along with that, where things get a bit murky is what happens after you decide to quit. I have already found that growth continued when I took a month off. What I would like to know is why? Was it because of residual hormones still in my system? Or, is it possible that one's system can become rearranged and start producing female hormones as a matter of normality. Especially if ones' T levels are so low as to offer no resistance. If that's the case, I'm already SCREWED!! Wonder if my medical ins. will cover a breast reduction down the road? Seriously, this is a fact that some of us will definitely have to consider, and if any of you have the explanation for it, I would be happy to hear it.
A bit of clarification may be due. When I mentioned the question about back and forth changes in breast shape, I meant the whole breast, as viewed in profile from the side. Not just the nipple. I love it when they're more pert, and pointy, and it makes me bonkers when they just decide to go rounded for what reason I don't know. Oddly enough, when measured either way, it still comes out identical. If I can figure out how to put up a couple photos, it will be easier to explain.
And, a comment to Luk. Yes, I have experienced the sticky stuff you mentioned. When under vacuum, my nipples will always seep a cream-colored something from many spots that is quite "sticky". Enough so that it will form droplets, but thay will not fall off. Don't know what they are. At other times, a more watery liguid has come out and run down in the cups, up to maybe half a thimbleful. That doesn't bother me. (tastes good ) I am curious about the sticky stuff, though.
Sfem, if I may ask, does your wife just play with your nipples, or your whole breasts? My wife's hands go straight for the nipples. I'm trying to get her to less ignore the rest of my breasts, but it's hard. I'm wondering if there's a "lesbian" factor that may be bothering her? She played with my nipples before I grew breasts, and she knows they're 50 times more sensitive now, so maybe that's it. She can accomplish all she wants just by "tweaking" them. I'm not too fond of them being pinched, though, and she uses that little fact, too!
Gads, why can't I keep anything short? Take care all!! Patti

[Demon Lord Etna]

#2 observation was that my desire to crossdress decreased, which upset me a bit, though I felt great. Maybe the fact that I retired at almost the same time had something to do with my attitude, though I was honestly anticipating having more time to spend crossdressing, thus the fact that not feeling like crossdressing much was a bit disconcerting.

I know this is an old thread but maybe the desire to "crossdress" has diminished simply because you're at a point that you aren't seeing it as crossdressing anymore. You're just getting dressed. Your clothes now might not be as over the top feminine as they were when you were deliberately trying to dress as a woman, but how does your current style compare to before that? When you were trying to dress as a man?

Subtle changes seem to go unnoticed when compared to the wrong extreme.

Then again, I could be totally offbase, and this won't matter in the least.