Pansy,
Thank you for your truly thoughtful response. Like I have said I welcome everyone willing to give me information in my learning experience so that hopefully down the road I can help the next person in a position similar to my own.
So I guess I will just address the points you made in order:
As far as where I got the 9000 number from. I got this number from reading the mice study on PM that Byrony posted. Again I could be reading this completely wrong but how I took the study was that feeding the mouse 100 mg/kg produced very little reproduction impact. So with myself weighing about 90kg, 90kg * 100 mg would be 9000 mg safely. Again this could be completely wrong and I would never consider taking this much because even if the numbers are "safe" it doesn't sound safe.
Next, as far as my list goes I do agree that it is over the top. But is it bad to be over the top? Could I possibley get less desirable results? As far as a base program goes would you recommend trying to create a cycle of hormones or just keeping with the same routine every day?
On your point of relationships I really having nothing to add other than I 100% agree with you.
I too also hope I have at least another 40-50 years. On the point of not being able to go shirt less in public, I don't really see this as a problem for me (granted my mind is still young) because over the past 4 or 5 years I have been uncomfortable removing my shirt in front of anyone seeing as I am somewhat overweight and have what I consider to be descent sized moobs. As far as cringing away this is something I would say I already have some experience with. Like yourself I also have my navel pierced. I have had it for slightly over a year and still any time that anybody's hand gets close to my stomach I cringe away. And as far as someone feeling my bra straps, this is just something each one of us has to get over for our dreams to become reality. To your point on kids I do not really have an answer to that as I don't have kids. But I wouldn't exactly say I am anxious to have kids. I would say I don't want to damage my chances of having children in the future. From my stand point I could wait 10 years before I have kids but that is dependent on your partners wants as well. As to what my kids think I hope it would be able to teach them the old saying of "you can accomplish anything you put your mind to". As far as their friends go I suppose I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
With regards to anxiety, I now have a better understanding of what is meant. Going off of a baseline of absolutely no anxiety, then I would say I have low anxiety. In your example of "Did I remember to lock the door?" I would say this example happens to me more than anything else. I guess this wouldn't just be forgetfulness because even if I am fairly sure I have locked it I go back and jiggle the knob to make sure. The most extreme example I can remember is when I was about half a mile down the road and thought "Did I lock the door" and then feeling the need to turn around, go back home and check (and of course it was). Maybe you can be the judge of how extreme that is?
Again I want to thank everyone for their wonderful comments and all I ask if that you keep them coming.
Much Love,
Brittni
Thank you for your truly thoughtful response. Like I have said I welcome everyone willing to give me information in my learning experience so that hopefully down the road I can help the next person in a position similar to my own.
So I guess I will just address the points you made in order:
As far as where I got the 9000 number from. I got this number from reading the mice study on PM that Byrony posted. Again I could be reading this completely wrong but how I took the study was that feeding the mouse 100 mg/kg produced very little reproduction impact. So with myself weighing about 90kg, 90kg * 100 mg would be 9000 mg safely. Again this could be completely wrong and I would never consider taking this much because even if the numbers are "safe" it doesn't sound safe.
Next, as far as my list goes I do agree that it is over the top. But is it bad to be over the top? Could I possibley get less desirable results? As far as a base program goes would you recommend trying to create a cycle of hormones or just keeping with the same routine every day?
On your point of relationships I really having nothing to add other than I 100% agree with you.
I too also hope I have at least another 40-50 years. On the point of not being able to go shirt less in public, I don't really see this as a problem for me (granted my mind is still young) because over the past 4 or 5 years I have been uncomfortable removing my shirt in front of anyone seeing as I am somewhat overweight and have what I consider to be descent sized moobs. As far as cringing away this is something I would say I already have some experience with. Like yourself I also have my navel pierced. I have had it for slightly over a year and still any time that anybody's hand gets close to my stomach I cringe away. And as far as someone feeling my bra straps, this is just something each one of us has to get over for our dreams to become reality. To your point on kids I do not really have an answer to that as I don't have kids. But I wouldn't exactly say I am anxious to have kids. I would say I don't want to damage my chances of having children in the future. From my stand point I could wait 10 years before I have kids but that is dependent on your partners wants as well. As to what my kids think I hope it would be able to teach them the old saying of "you can accomplish anything you put your mind to". As far as their friends go I suppose I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
With regards to anxiety, I now have a better understanding of what is meant. Going off of a baseline of absolutely no anxiety, then I would say I have low anxiety. In your example of "Did I remember to lock the door?" I would say this example happens to me more than anything else. I guess this wouldn't just be forgetfulness because even if I am fairly sure I have locked it I go back and jiggle the knob to make sure. The most extreme example I can remember is when I was about half a mile down the road and thought "Did I lock the door" and then feeling the need to turn around, go back home and check (and of course it was). Maybe you can be the judge of how extreme that is?
Again I want to thank everyone for their wonderful comments and all I ask if that you keep them coming.
Much Love,
Brittni
This post was last modified: 05-01-2012, 10:06 AM by Brittni.
Hi Brittni,
first I want to say that I agree with just about everything Pansy-Mae has said. I will respond to the points you raised with me though.
To be clear, (a) you are not a mouse. (b) 9000mg would be the dose that it appears would affect your sperm if you were a 90kg mouse.
I take 6000mg a day, but that is for my mental health; it's actually more of a stalling dose for me regarding breast growth (a good thing, actually). The recommend dose for male breast growth is, I believe, 4000mg per day. Also, and this is important, I do not intend to father any more kids!
Animal studies are notorious for being a very rough model of human response. That's why I said you would need to get your sperm monitored regularly.
Not necessarily. I did give a link to a quite good FAQ by Dr A Vitale. The deep calming feeling is indicative (the experts say) of a congenital disorder that creates a TS brain.
That said, even the people who do not notice any change in anxiety levels notice that the desire to cross-dress (when extant) goes away. I'm not an expert in psychology or psychotherapy, but I wonder if gender anxiety manifests itself in cross-dressing, and people who are able to indulge (I only could rarely) use that as a means to relieve the anxiety that people like me suffer.
All I intended to warn you about was the possibility that you may be, at least to some degree, a TS. If you grow breasts, you could be starting down a path that leads to the desire to full transition, particularly as you will likely also lose spontaneous erections and the normal male responses to situations. This has happened to one particular person, but that is a sample of one, so not statistically significant.
Again, read the FAQ that I linked to. The anxiety that is meant is not the normal kind of worry. It is an intense, acute feeling of dread, hopelessness, possibly panic with elevated pulse rates.
If you experience this, stop taking the PM for a day or two. Try again; if it is repeatable, then it is likely that your brain is not the foetal-androgen-suppressed TS kind that is mentioned in the literature. This would mean that you would not be able to deal with the use of estrogen to grow your breasts, and you would definitely not be a candidate for hormone-based transition (though you would need to check this with a gender counsellor). So, in the unlikely event that you did have this experience, but still had an irrepressible desire for breasts, then you would need to investigate other methods, such as massage and vacuum (noogleberry) devices.
In an ideal world this would be true.
Please take the following as points to think about: I am definitely not suggesting that you take them forward.
To be honest, if your desire to grow breasts continues after you take PM, you may find it more convenient all around to experiment with trying to pass as a female. My life would certainly have been less troublesome if the options had been open to me. (I wouldn't have had my kids, so I wouldn't go back and do it now, but I wouldn't have known that then)
Most of the problems that Pansy-Mae talks about would be lessened if you were accepted by society as a female.
It's possible that living as a female, combined with long term ingestion of estrogen would make your relationship options widen too.
I believe there is a fluidity to sexual preference that is radically affected by hormones. After all, masturbation is likely the first sexual experience that most men experience, and it is by definition homoerotic, so to that extent at least we are all bisexual. (My pre-PM days fantasies often incorporated male "actors", so I know that the potential is in me - though I will never act upon it.)
In that instance, should you find that transition becomes desirable, freezing sperm would still be an option.
I don't know how much effort all this would require; if you look too masculine, and cannot afford facial feminization surgery, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but it's something to think about (along with all the other things to think about!)
Again, points to ponder. I'm the kind of person who tries to think of all contingencies, and encourage others to do so too.
Best regards,
Bryony
first I want to say that I agree with just about everything Pansy-Mae has said. I will respond to the points you raised with me though.
Quote:If I am reading the mice study correctly it seems to be very encouraging toward my fertility concerns. Please correct me if I am wrong but it seems that from the study's numbers seeing as I weigh about 200 pounds (about 90 kg) I would be able to take 9000 mg of PM per day (totally unrealistic) and still be safe. After adding the other herbs I listed should my goal be to keep everything under 9000 or just PM?
To be clear, (a) you are not a mouse. (b) 9000mg would be the dose that it appears would affect your sperm if you were a 90kg mouse.
I take 6000mg a day, but that is for my mental health; it's actually more of a stalling dose for me regarding breast growth (a good thing, actually). The recommend dose for male breast growth is, I believe, 4000mg per day. Also, and this is important, I do not intend to father any more kids!
Animal studies are notorious for being a very rough model of human response. That's why I said you would need to get your sperm monitored regularly.
Quote:Also with your point on anxiety. If I understand what you are saying, if I have the calming feeling you are referring to this could make me want a more complete transition?
Not necessarily. I did give a link to a quite good FAQ by Dr A Vitale. The deep calming feeling is indicative (the experts say) of a congenital disorder that creates a TS brain.
That said, even the people who do not notice any change in anxiety levels notice that the desire to cross-dress (when extant) goes away. I'm not an expert in psychology or psychotherapy, but I wonder if gender anxiety manifests itself in cross-dressing, and people who are able to indulge (I only could rarely) use that as a means to relieve the anxiety that people like me suffer.
All I intended to warn you about was the possibility that you may be, at least to some degree, a TS. If you grow breasts, you could be starting down a path that leads to the desire to full transition, particularly as you will likely also lose spontaneous erections and the normal male responses to situations. This has happened to one particular person, but that is a sample of one, so not statistically significant.
Quote:On the other hand if I find new anxiety developing does this come with any other implications? As far as anxiety I already have I would have to say if I get to thinking about anything too much or worrying about it (for instance a college final) I would definitely say I have some anxiety. But this is normal isn't it?
Again, read the FAQ that I linked to. The anxiety that is meant is not the normal kind of worry. It is an intense, acute feeling of dread, hopelessness, possibly panic with elevated pulse rates.
If you experience this, stop taking the PM for a day or two. Try again; if it is repeatable, then it is likely that your brain is not the foetal-androgen-suppressed TS kind that is mentioned in the literature. This would mean that you would not be able to deal with the use of estrogen to grow your breasts, and you would definitely not be a candidate for hormone-based transition (though you would need to check this with a gender counsellor). So, in the unlikely event that you did have this experience, but still had an irrepressible desire for breasts, then you would need to investigate other methods, such as massage and vacuum (noogleberry) devices.
Quote:On your point of relationship I agree and disagree. On the one hand choice of partner will definitely go down, but on the other hand someone who may be put of by the thought of their partner growing breasts may be ok if their partner already had them. This could be because they never felt like there was something you were hiding from them.
In an ideal world this would be true.
Please take the following as points to think about: I am definitely not suggesting that you take them forward.
To be honest, if your desire to grow breasts continues after you take PM, you may find it more convenient all around to experiment with trying to pass as a female. My life would certainly have been less troublesome if the options had been open to me. (I wouldn't have had my kids, so I wouldn't go back and do it now, but I wouldn't have known that then)
Most of the problems that Pansy-Mae talks about would be lessened if you were accepted by society as a female.
It's possible that living as a female, combined with long term ingestion of estrogen would make your relationship options widen too.
I believe there is a fluidity to sexual preference that is radically affected by hormones. After all, masturbation is likely the first sexual experience that most men experience, and it is by definition homoerotic, so to that extent at least we are all bisexual. (My pre-PM days fantasies often incorporated male "actors", so I know that the potential is in me - though I will never act upon it.)
In that instance, should you find that transition becomes desirable, freezing sperm would still be an option.
I don't know how much effort all this would require; if you look too masculine, and cannot afford facial feminization surgery, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but it's something to think about (along with all the other things to think about!)
Again, points to ponder. I'm the kind of person who tries to think of all contingencies, and encourage others to do so too.
Best regards,
Bryony
Bryony,
I want to start by thanking you for another great response.
When you said:
I have to say if I had to guess right now (not having ever tried PM) I would say I am TS to some degree. At this point I just really don't know how much. Right now I have no desire for a full transition, and if things change I will have to face that hurdle when I get to it.
On this point:
How so? Could you elaborate a little?
I would like to say I really appreciate your points to ponder. I can say that I when the question is posed I do like to think about and ponder the situation. If the question hadn't been posed it is not likely that it would ever be something that I ever thought about.
Also I now have read most of the FAQ that you posted. I guess I should read before I post.
Everyone please keep questions, comments, and points to ponder coming. I really do enjoy them and try to respond in a timely manner.
Now just a question that I have, can anyone recommend their favorite or a good compression sports bra? I am soon going to be in the market for one or some shortly as daily wearers.
Much Love,
Brittni
I want to start by thanking you for another great response.
When you said:
Quote:All I intended to warn you about was the possibility that you may be, at least to some degree, a TS. If you grow breasts, you could be starting down a path that leads to the desire to full transition, particularly as you will likely also lose spontaneous erections and the normal male responses to situations.
I have to say if I had to guess right now (not having ever tried PM) I would say I am TS to some degree. At this point I just really don't know how much. Right now I have no desire for a full transition, and if things change I will have to face that hurdle when I get to it.
On this point:
Quote:It's possible that living as a female, combined with long term ingestion of estrogen would make your relationship options widen too.
How so? Could you elaborate a little?
I would like to say I really appreciate your points to ponder. I can say that I when the question is posed I do like to think about and ponder the situation. If the question hadn't been posed it is not likely that it would ever be something that I ever thought about.
Also I now have read most of the FAQ that you posted. I guess I should read before I post.
Everyone please keep questions, comments, and points to ponder coming. I really do enjoy them and try to respond in a timely manner.
Now just a question that I have, can anyone recommend their favorite or a good compression sports bra? I am soon going to be in the market for one or some shortly as daily wearers.
Much Love,
Brittni
(06-01-2012, 03:52 AM)Brittni Wrote:Quote:It's possible that living as a female, combined with long term ingestion of estrogen would make your relationship options widen too.
How so? Could you elaborate a little?
Caveat: untested opinion!
As I mentioned earlier, I'm of the opinion that most people are bisexual to a greater or lesser extent. If it is true that a TS has a brain that operates in a female mode, I think it is possible that long-term life as a female, taking anti-androgens, could well make males appear more attractive. Response to male pheromones, for example, would likely occur.
If you look up Cheryl89's history, here and on her site, you will find she started off as a male with male desires, girlfriends etc, but after her transition she found men more attractive, and I believe has had sexual relationships with men. (Other readers, please correct me if I am wrong here).
For someone without a life partner, post transition they would likely find it easier to develop a relationship with a man, is my opinion.
Whether any of this applies to you is another matter; my object is merely to bring the possibilities to your attention as something to think about.
Bryony,
Thank you for recommending I read about Cheryl. It is truly amazing the results she has achieved. Her story is truly inspirational. At the same time though, her story also scares me. Now don't get me wrong her breasts are magnificent, but I would never want anything that big. I just worry, what if I get to the point where I can't stop like she did? That is a scary/exciting thought. This also ties in to when you said:
Again another scary/exciting thought. As of right now this is not something I would consider, but who know after I start on my journey. I look forward to all physical and mental changes to come.
Again back to your point on me passing, again as of now not something I am super interested in especially on a daily basis. I have to admit it would be nice to have the option to do it from time to time. Other than the fact I am really not interested in passing, I know for a fact that a good portion of my family would never accept this. And other than the fact that my family found women's clothing in my room several times in the past (I have gotten much better at hiding it to the point I can't find everything I have) I never really plan on telling them anything.
As far as FFS goes, again I am a college student and don't have buckets of money just lying around, even if this was something I wanted. Maybe in the future it will be, only time will tell.
Again just want to thank everyone for comments, questions, concerns, points to ponder. Please keep them coming.
Much Love,
Brittni
Thank you for recommending I read about Cheryl. It is truly amazing the results she has achieved. Her story is truly inspirational. At the same time though, her story also scares me. Now don't get me wrong her breasts are magnificent, but I would never want anything that big. I just worry, what if I get to the point where I can't stop like she did? That is a scary/exciting thought. This also ties in to when you said:
Quote:As I mentioned earlier, I'm of the opinion that most people are bisexual to a greater or lesser extent. If it is true that a TS has a brain that operates in a female mode, I think it is possible that long-term life as a female, taking anti-androgens, could well make males appear more attractive. Response to male pheromones, for example, would likely occur.
Again another scary/exciting thought. As of right now this is not something I would consider, but who know after I start on my journey. I look forward to all physical and mental changes to come.
Again back to your point on me passing, again as of now not something I am super interested in especially on a daily basis. I have to admit it would be nice to have the option to do it from time to time. Other than the fact I am really not interested in passing, I know for a fact that a good portion of my family would never accept this. And other than the fact that my family found women's clothing in my room several times in the past (I have gotten much better at hiding it to the point I can't find everything I have) I never really plan on telling them anything.
Quote:I don't know how much effort all this would require; if you look too masculine, and cannot afford facial feminization surgery, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but it's something to think about (along with all the other things to think about!)
As far as FFS goes, again I am a college student and don't have buckets of money just lying around, even if this was something I wanted. Maybe in the future it will be, only time will tell.
Again just want to thank everyone for comments, questions, concerns, points to ponder. Please keep them coming.
Much Love,
Brittni
I think SarahSchilling was right:
I got my PM in the mail today and don't think I can wait a single day. Never thought it would be a problem to wait.
Also still looking for sugestions on sports bras.
Much Love,
Brittni
Quote:I'm not sure you need such a long prep period at your young age. But if you can hold off on taking PM for 3 months, you have more willpower than I did.
I got my PM in the mail today and don't think I can wait a single day. Never thought it would be a problem to wait.
Also still looking for sugestions on sports bras.
Much Love,
Brittni
(09-01-2012, 09:36 PM)Brittni Wrote: I think SarahSchilling was right:
Quote:I'm not sure you need such a long prep period at your young age. But if you can hold off on taking PM for 3 months, you have more willpower than I did.
I got my PM in the mail today and don't think I can wait a single day. Never thought it would be a problem to wait.
Also still looking for sugestions on sports bras.
Much Love,
Brittni
I don't even think I waited 15 minutes once my bottle arrived, despite saying I'd stick to just FG/SP for a month. That prep period of a month became a week real quick once the PM arrived.
Hehehe, well on the bright side, I really prefer PM to any of the other herbs. It hasn't let me down. Great results,no undesirable side effects, in my opinion.
FG made me smell odd and gave occaisonal headaches.
As such, I am totally with you on needing some advice on sports bras/compression tops/shapewear....
The coney points of my nipples are starting to protrude even with layered clothing, and I don't think I'm even an A cup.
What a great issue to have though. Is it really worrying when you're smiling and laughing maniacally about it?
I guess not.
This post was last modified: 12-02-2012, 04:13 AM by SarahSchilling.
As for compressing things, look into moderate to firm control shape wear tops. I use a couple different styles of shape wear tank tops that keep things under control, but avoid the line of the back band on a bra or sports bra. If anyone says anything (only one person has so far) I just say "it's like an undershirt."
I even have two in black that I wear under sleeveless t-shirts for yoga class (I do hot yoga--90+º F room) and have never had any comments or much in the way of stares (at least so far as I can detect.)
In my opinion, bras and even sports bras, create a detectable and highly recognizable line under light to moderate weight shirts that shape wear almost completely avoids. If you do some comparison shopping on the web, they are not more expensive than a good quality bra, and often cheaper.
I even have two in black that I wear under sleeveless t-shirts for yoga class (I do hot yoga--90+º F room) and have never had any comments or much in the way of stares (at least so far as I can detect.)
In my opinion, bras and even sports bras, create a detectable and highly recognizable line under light to moderate weight shirts that shape wear almost completely avoids. If you do some comparison shopping on the web, they are not more expensive than a good quality bra, and often cheaper.
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