[christin14]

Yesterday, I forgot to take my herbs (FG and SP). I got busy and just didn't get to it. Last night, I started getting a headache and today I have had one all day. Is this a coincidence or is it actually something hormonal? Just wondering if anyone else has had this issue. BTW, I am taking about 3600mg of FG and 2000mg of SP per day.

Christin

[TibetanPrincess]

Umm headaches scream estrogen dominance and a clogged up liver.

Yo might want to break and cleanse and then start with a low dose and keep it lower than what you had.

[christin14]

Sounds good. Would stopping for a week be a good start?

Christin

[TibetanPrincess]

I would do two weeks:
One week cleanse with DIM, Dandelions and milk thistle.
2nd week drink nothing but distilled water and continue with DIM.
Then See how you feel.

[chrissie]

Whilst I think PM may have caused an initial feeling of abdominal discomfort, I have never had any problems, with headaches, while on it.

[Pansy-Mae]

I would do two weeks:
One week cleanse with DIM, Dandelions and milk thistle.
2nd week drink nothing but distilled water and continue with DIM.
Then See how you feel.

Ya see... I wouldn't do any of that.

I used to get headaches on a high PM dose and I simply dropped down a bit, not stop completely. One of the liver's main functions is to act as a filter/collection point for rubbish...its designed for it and it has mechanisms for dealing with it, naturally. That supposes of course that it is basically healthy, but if it isn't you shouldn't be stressing it by adding NBE stuff anyway.

Just my opinion.

[dargona]

I've also noticed rather fast results simply by altering the dosage levels that I take without completely dropping everything entirely to cleanse. Haven't had any problems yet.

[chrishoney]

Pansy and Dargona are basically correct. Further, I can't think of any way to physically "clog" your liver. The liver is primarily responsible for metabolizing just about every chemical (toxin, nutrient or hormone) that gets into your blood stream, and it does this via enzymes and biochemical reactions, not mechanical filtering. The water soluble byproducts of this enzymatic catabolism are removed from the blood via other organ systems (primarily the kidneys, intestines and lymphatic systems, and to a lesser extent the exocrine glands in the skin.) There is little scientific evidence to support the idea of "liver cleansing"(http://www.webmd.com/balance/natural-liv...-cleansing) and in fact a balanced diet of primarily whole, natural foods rich in fruits and vegetables is probably far more beneficial than any liver cleanse or supposedly cleansing diet.

[TibetanPrincess]

Do what you feel you should. But I have to disagree. Not entirely as it apparently has worked for some but coming from a girl who has experienced this before and more than once, you need to cleanse. period.

The liver can only do so much. I am supposedly healthy as far as my liver but I have a sensitive blood type. I truly believe some types can't handle as much as others.

Everyone is different, go with your gut'n trust your instinct. Wonderup and soy made me feel this way. When I took my hormone panel even 5 months later guess what? I had extremely high estradoil levels compared to estrone and estroil.
My DHEA and testosterone where also extreme. The estrogenic herbs I was taking caused and abundance of estradoil like hormones, to free flow throughout my body and also convert to extra Testosterone and then the ugly Androgens. I believe most of us want to stay away from that when attempting NBE.

Although my liver was fine, It was obvious, it wasn't doing the job of converting these like hormones correctly and that the dose I was taking(although they were average) was too high for me. That explained why my swelling never became permanent. My receptors shut down.
The lasting result: Acne, severely dry skin, new allergies, bloating, no growth, Mild Hursiutism, cramping on and off through out my cycles and a dissipating waste but my headaches were gone!

If you are taking pm, remember it is way more potent in the hormone dept. than other herbs even though it is a modulator.

When your stools get hard and your skin starts to get dry, that is a for sure sign you need to drop the herbs you are taking and cleanse the colon,liver and kidneys.

And so you know, there is such a thing as clogged up liver(stones and parasites) as well as arteries(bad fatty cholesterol),colons(parasites and waste spackle), kidneys(stones), and gallbladder(parasites and stones).

I personally don't ever go by Web Md or Wikipedia for research, I go by actual experience and when I did a liver flush myself, I saw many "stones" from brown to a gorgeous blue-green the size of pebbles. I wasn't as bad as some but I needed the flush. I have a rare blood type that is sensitive to many chemicals whether it be from nature or man-made.
Once again, certain blood/genetic types handle these things differently, just cause your relatively healthy doesn't mean you aren't a sensitive type

The more you know about your body, the more you will know what your symptoms mean.

Goodluck

[chrishoney]

I am not going to get into a pissing match with tibetan113 over this, but I think it IS necessary to let other readers know that tibetan's statements lack any scientific basis in fact. Hard stools and dry skin are NOT a "for sure sign" you need a "liver cleanse", they are simply a sign of dehydration. Don't believe me? Google "signs of dehydration." Here is a quote from the Mayo Clinic (maybe that is a more acceptable source than WebMD):

Symptoms
By Mayo Clinic staff
Mild to moderate dehydration is likely to cause:

Dry, sticky mouth
Sleepiness or tiredness — children are likely to be less active than usual
Thirst
Decreased urine output — no wet diapers for three hours for infants and eight hours or more without urination for older children and teens
Few or no tears when crying
Dry skin
Headache
Constipation
Dizziness or lightheadedness
Severe dehydration, a medical emergency, can cause:

Gee, no mention of cleansing the liver! And the original poster's description of what he experienced sounds an awful lot like the descriptions above for mild dehydration. Furthermore, how do you go from missing a whole day of weak estrogenic herbs, having a couple headaches to estrogen dominance in a male? I missed that line of logic.

While you are at it research the efficacy of liver cleanses or flushes. There isn't one study that indicates they do any good. On the other hand, there is nothing to say they do harm, other than an overly restrictive diet. Don't believe me? Try to find ONE study that backs up ANY health benefit claim.

Most of the claims for liver cleanses you see in health food stores and online are based on the bizarre ideas of Hulda Clark who is THE poster child for medical quackery. Tibetan113's statements as to a "clogged liver" are misleading at best and patently false at worst. Liver "stones" aren't actually stones at all, but largely congealed fat, cholesterol and bile salts and are pretty rare in western countries. Liver parasites are pretty rare unless you have been trading spit with your dog, eating uncooked meat or have recently drunk untreated water in a third world country. In addition, liver parasites have a suite of symptoms and health implications far worse than headaches. Delaying accurate diagnosis and medical treatment by doing liver cleanses (I was reading online about some people doing 15 and 20 "cleanses" over several weeks!) sounds like a sure fire way to cause liver damage. I'm unclear why she brings up the other pathologies mentioned as they have little to no bearing on the discussion, especially the fraudulent idea of colon spackle. Pure bunk, as are colon cleanses. Don't believe me, research that one too!

You don't "need to cleanse. period." You do need to drink adequate water, eat a balanced diet, get enough exercise and heed the warning signs your body may be sending you regarding dosage levels of the herbs we are all experimenting with. But cleanse your liver? Spare me please.....