[Sandy77]

Over the past couple of years I read the same questions and a variety of answers, so I spent time reading posts from Lotus and others on this site as well as external sources and I discovered that the science behind BO isn’t as complicated as it seems. Now…I’ll probably get slammed by those wanting to fact check, but I have my disclaimers: playing with bodily systems is risky. From liver to kidney and from limbic to blood clots, this is a personal choice that one needs to address. Two, every body is different, so what works for one, may not work for another. Having said that, NBE using BO is not that different than bread making…let me explain:

BO up-regulates aromatase an enzyme that converts T into E…OK? I will compare aromatase to yeast…just as yeast needs sugar to to perform, so does aromatase need T in order to do its job. Well, Salt will regulate and kill off yeast, so too will DHT, stop the process. Simplistic? Sure, but it makes sense. Also, aromatase needs T in order to function, so no T…no E. 

Putting it all together, BO increases aromatase activity. It works best with PG because PG stimulates the pituitary gland that causes the release of hormones, for men T in particular. RR stops the conversion of T into DHT which inhibits aromatase. Any medication that inhibits T production will inhibit aromatase activity. BO, like proofing bread needs a specific temperature, above 98.2 for BO.

So, everything I have read and experienced the main players are:

BO, RR, PG, and kelp supplements taken in the afternoon and evening.

One can add an estrogenic herb like Hops and an aromatase booster like genistein, a precursor like Mexican Yam and say a prolactin source like fenugreek, taken in the morning.

Point of no return? I think that’s unknown. The longer one is on these, probably the longer it’ll take to slow the process. Can one return? I don’t believe so. Breast development is permanent, and after several months, I think one becomes sterilized. 

How long it takes for DHT to resume for the herbs to be fully metabolized, I haven’t found any answers. Remember though, even as your body works toward male chemistry, your body is still performing making Estrogen, so continued growth is likely…could be several months, could be a year. I guess it best summed up with: “ if you can’t do the time…”

Amounts? Don’t over do it! Less is more and LISTEN TO YOUR BODY. 

Again, I’m not a doctor, not a scientist, just one who’s done a ton of reading and have found consistent posts and documents here and externally and simply putting 2 + 2. It’s just my 2 cents worth.

[Curvyguy]

I guess you have a good point there everyone is different and these phytoestrogens effect everyone differently. You have those that feminise faster than others due to body chemistry and if they also born with intersex traits. We are all unique and its all personal choice you do you and be who you want to be male, female or somewhere in between that's what life's about.

[flamesabers]

Hello Sandy,

Welcome to the forum! 

[Heaven's Night]

The aromatase effect of BO can't be and isn't the only thing it does. I'm on Bica, that's effectively "reserving" or shutting down T receptors,I'm on oral DHEA so I should have extra T floating around but unable on acting much. And yet Bovine Ovary (+pit + Uterine) has been doing its thing insanly well for a long time.

The logic about the aromatase effect is correct, but its more complicated than that.

What about dosing then, I've done small dose, moderate dose, so called optimal and then I've doubled from there, no bad effects. No one knows what is "a lot" on this stuff, clearly what I'm doing is not too much as otherwise something would have gone wrong by now. I keep telling people to find a dose on which it works nicely and then keep it there as more might just end up blowing up their stock too soon without much additional effect. 

The stuff you listed to be taken together make sense. Kelp isn't a must, the iodine in it is what is important. I switched kelp for a good multivitamin ages ago, one which contains same amount of iodine. I'm not sure if that's a thing for everybody though, I got explosive breast development from just starting on BO without the kelp/multivitamin, then kept it going just in case and for the health benefit.

Then again, I might be a biased example of how glandular therapy might work, my body isn't male but intersex and I reacted to BO in quite extreme way. There was obvious growth spurt going on within three weeks.

There's been quite a lot of talk about BO from newbies lately, I don't know if it should be pointed out that its not the magic bullet for titties, it works kinda randomly likely based on hormone balance and genetics. But its worth a try, as part of well thought out NBE regimen or on side of conventional HRT it can be amazing help.

[Manue]

Hi HN, thanks for laying this out. I’m curious because the results you describe sound almost “too good,” and I’m trying to understand what you’re basing it on. What made you confident BO was the driver (vs background HRT shifts, time, body changes, etc.)?

If you happen to have any solid resources you trust (even just a couple links you found convincing, or a mechanism explanation you think holds up), I’d love to read them. Also, did you track anything like labs or just changes over time?

[Heaven's Night]

Hi Manue. 

Obviously the fantastic results me and few others have got is not only done by bovine ovary, but it is a MAJOR factor. I have some study articles gathered up about this, there's not much unfortunately and then there's a lot of anecdotes. I'm planning on trying to gather it all toghether and post it as a coherent text as this is pondered upon so much.

Here on BN Lotus posted something about BO when she looked into it more not ages ago, its in the Projext-X thread somewhere. And Tanyasquirrel posted a bunch of interesting ideas about it in her Acorns thread. I think there were some links and interesting ideas about what makes it work. I have these posts saved in a huge textfile of assorted notes I've been saving over the years. Then I should ask Melissa if she could still find the mouse study that was about glandular therapy on mice and the findings were extremely interesting, it had something which could explain the "point of no return" that many people have talked about, she unfortunately never showed me that study or if she did I never saved it. I have to assk as this has been bugging me for several years now.

Most of why I swear to the name of glandulars is my own experience, the correlation of timing with changing doses etc. to my breast development and body changes which is undeniable. I haven't done labs for ages now and I should, then again all I've changed since then is tweaking the NBE program and switching from Cypro to Bica and bit higher dose of EV. The really interesting wild card on hormone levels is combination of Bica and oral DHEA as that's something that would absolutely require blood check to see the difference.

The reasons why BO works I speculate to be the following:

1. Contains bioidentical estrogens, progesterone and likely more, in differeing amounts depending on what poinf ot the hormone cycle the cows were slaughtered, this we can't of course know and likely each capsule has a mix of who knows how many cows, we don't know the specifics of the process that results into the Swanson Ovarian Glandular product. Other than its freeze dried cow ovaries ground to powder.

2. Something in it works as a suspected massive aromatase booster, this has been talked about a lot but I'm yet to see evidence for the exact mechanism of this.

3. It appears to work better when combined with Pituitary glandular taken at approximately 10-20% of the BO dosage. This I picked from the attached Glandular therapy program idea and the breast growth capsule patent text, since I upped my Pit dosage, results have been amazingly good. It works on its own, but this combo seems better.

4. This is pure specuation, but its repeated by many people who have tried it, that something in it works as a hormone balancer in a way that conventional HRT alone can't do. Meaning that people have been reporting improved mood and energy levels when starting to take it and noticing obvious difference when stopping. And the positive mental effect precedes body changes and continues as long as the BO is continued. This was the first thing I paid attention to when I first started. Melissa noted a similar change, so did Gracefulcurves here on BN and I've read of few others. So bovine ovaries might contain a combination of hormones which is more than just estrogens and P4 and thus it works as balancer of sorts. 

5. Body temperature and genetics. This has been speculated a lot about for many years and some people have been convinced that raising their body temperature just a bit made BO work far better. This is why people keep mentioning adding kelp or multivitiamin containing iodine to their NBE program. And then lastly there's the genetic factor. We know how BO works to some poeple like its hormonal rocket fuel, to many it does very little and to some absolutely nothing at all. Its been speculated that there likely is a genetic factor which makes some people benefit more than others. I think its more than likely as similar differences exist with just conventional HRT, but what specific genetic traits might be in play is mystery I would love to se answered.

I'll attach few articles to read, there really isn't much to go on, but its a start.

[Manue]

Thank you, HN, for the leads and attachments. After a first pass through the material, I’m trying to map where BO would add something beyond a well-tuned baseline. For someone already on an optimized HRT setup (E2 on the higher end of range, progesterone appropriately dosed/used, and testosterone suppressed into typical female ranges), BO may have limited incremental impact. A lot of what’s described also overlaps with things that can shift from fundamentals like nutrition, energy balance, and time.

That said, I agree the response seems highly individual and hard to predict. I’ll read the documents more carefully, but at the moment I’m leaning toward “maybe redundant if HRT and diet are already dialed in,” rather than a universal multiplier.

[Heaven's Night]

I'll try to find more as there are some studies out there which isn't much but I know at least one which I should try to find out.

I see glandular therapy as kind of a side show which balances hormone levels, convnetional HRT is doing the heavy lifting and TCP is highly effective on boobs only, then again I've had such great difference from BO/uteri/pit that I'll keep on going at it for at least another year. I'm planning on dropping on maintenance doses at some point but for now it will keep on going as its obviously helpful.

I think this is one of the things that are worth a try, then continue if it works and otherwise just drop it. Those who benefit greatly should not miss the opportunity.

[flamesabers]

For someone already on an optimized HRT setup (E2 on the higher end of range, progesterone appropriately dosed/used, and testosterone suppressed into typical female ranges), BO may have limited incremental impact. A lot of what’s described also overlaps with things that can shift from fundamentals like nutrition, energy balance, and time.

That said, I agree the response seems highly individual and hard to predict. I’ll read the documents more carefully, but at the moment I’m leaning toward “maybe redundant if HRT and diet are already dialed in,” rather than a universal multiplier.

Agreed. With being on HRT (bioidentical no less) and at optimal feminine hormonal ranges, I wonder the efficacy of adding NBE products onto a HRT regime.

[Heaven's Night]

There's nothing to wonder about, there's plenty of evidence for it being beneficial.  You can of course argue forever that "its just genetics, well done HRT is always enough" to no end, how to tell which part of the program did what? There's no way to exactly tell it without extensive carefully planned study which wont happen.

Its not difficult to take note of what happens when people dabble with the TCP, HGH/IGF-1, glandulars, combination of them all, physical sttimulation, lactation, weight cycling and so on. Genetic potential makes or breaks, everything else just enables it.