[Christie_xo]

Hello everyone, i have some questions regarding on what I should be eating and how much I should be eating etc, along with some other questions.(i am 6,2 150lbs male)

Dosage:
I just started taking 1000mg OB today, 500mg in the morning and 500mg before I go to sleep, along with 1000mg of PM in the morning. I also have been taking 5mg lexapro before I sleep for about two years and 30mg of adderal in the morning for two years as well, I’m not quite sure how this effects me and my goals with OB and PM i would like to know if it does in any way.

Goals:
I mostly want all lower body changes mainly on my butt, I would like a very curvy feminine hour glass figure. My chest isn’t really a top priority for me but if it shows growth that would be a nice bonus.

Dieting questions:
My main concern lies in what I should be eating, when I thought about it my mind automatically went to just mostly gaining fat and intaking sufficient protein, but I feel like the fat would hinder the overall curve and hourglass look of my bottom.

Extra info:
I am really flexible and adaptable when It comes to food intake I can eat less or eat more pretty much however or whenever I need or want to, and I don’t mind putting on a good amount of weight if that helps my goals, I don’t really exercise at all but if there is any exercise recommendations I will be open to implementing them.

[Csquared]

You will "gain" fat as your testosterone and metabolism decrease.  Although adderal keeps your metabolic rate elevated (for some) so.....  best advice is to eat healthy (good fats and proteins) and use concentrated workouts to target specific areas for tone.  Let the BO do it's magic and measure those effects before altering your diet.

[wee2er]

Hi Christie,
I really struggled to shift any weight whilst on BO / PM so much so I gave up in the end and accepted that BO/PM both make you gain weight.
I only started loosing the pounds when I switched to HRT, which made it a lot easier, but appreciate that you may not want to do HRT!

The best way I loose weight is my variation of the alt day fasting, I cut out all the rubbish - sweets, choc, etc and just normally for 3~4-days, then fast for 1-day, although I dont count calories, I'd usually keep food intake to breakfast and an absolute minimum - bowl of porridge/ scram eggs on toast, sort of thing. Then repeat the cycle.
If I get hungry on my fast day I'll have a bowl of salad, or a milkshake, which usually does the trick.

As you are after mainly lower half changes I'd highly recommend exercising, have a search on YT as there are tonnes of feminising / legs, bums and tums exercise routines, definitely worth searching out and trying different ones to find a routine that suits you best. I've been doing these on and (being honest mostly) off for a good year but find I'm not consistent enough, so will be starting a weekly legs, bums, tums, class at my local sports hall.

Good luck

[Heaven's Night]

For me its been partially purposeful, partially just luck with metabolism. Since starting HRT, I have started to gain weight super easy. After starting glandular therapy on the side, it has gotten even easier. Especially when I combine Ovary, Uterine and Pituitary together. It seems that unlike before, now its easy to gain, difficult to maintain and almost impossible to lose any.

This is of course only my personal situation, but it is quite common that weight gain gets easier while on BO. It might be a problem to others, I have liked it as I've gained a lot of weight in last four years and almost all is lovely gynoid fat deposits on the right spots. My waist and tummy are a bit of a problem, but its nothing lipo sculpting wouldn't fix and otherwise I don't mind being like this. It hasn't stopped active life style so no problem there, last summer it took a while to get into hiking without it hurting my ankles which could be a weight problem.

If you want curves, you have to realise what most of the female body shape is made of. People talk about bone structure and muscles when majority of it is fat deposits in the right places. Bone structure doesn't tend to have dramatic differences, we're talking in single percent differences and on hips usually 1-3 inches or so and even 3" is reaching it. The rest is fat deposits and muscles below help to shape them of course.

There's a very good reason why those trans women who get the most dramatic changes in their body proportions are always the ones who either gain or lose a lot of weight during transition. This is apparent even in young girls who have got a lucky early start. Same applies to any women actually, I'm sure everybody knows somebody who has had a big weight loss or gain at some point and know how it can change body prorportions. What I advice and advocate for, is weight cycles while maintaining correct hormone balance. Believe me it works, I looked like a different person just five years ago. I went from lean androgynous shape to chubby hourglass and its all about controlled weight loss/gain cycle. For me its mostly been upwards which is totally fine as long as it wont slow me down or cause health issues.

Anyway, fact is that most curvy women aren't skinny either. Even if they're really muscular. Most of the curves you see are fat deposits, there's no way around it. And that's what we have a lot of control over, but usually getting the most out of it requires female hormone balance and a bit of luck on genetics. But its doable.

[onotira]

Heaven would love to hear more specifically about how you weight cycled, thanks! Gynoid fat deposits is definitely what I’m after.

So eat extra calories to slowly intentionally gain weight and then intentionally lose weight? And because I’m on E all fat gained will be gynoid and all fat lost will be android?

How long for a weight gain period? How much for a weight loss?

[Heaven's Night]

Heaven would love to hear more specifically about how you weight cycled, thanks! Gynoid fat deposits is definitely what I’m after.

So eat extra calories to slowly intentionally gain weight and then intentionally lose weight? And because I’m on E all fat gained will be gynoid and all fat lost will be android?

How long for a weight gain period? How much for a weight loss?

Basically yes, its quite simple. For gaining period I've usually took winter as I can't exercise as easily when everything's full of snow and its freezing cold. (Finland) The only thing I do is less frequent fasting and no limits on what I eat, meaning that I eat when ever I'm hungry and not feel shy about beer and ice cream and carbs in general. Mostly I try to eat healthy when I can afford it but its not always easy.

For weight loss, late spring to early autumn is best time and that's not long in our climate. I do frequent walks and hikes and do a lot of 12-18hour fasting periods in a way that I eat last time late afternoon, end up with most of the fast during the night and then hold on with breakfast which is literally breaking the fast in this case. Then I alternate between how many hours I do and about once a week take day or two off of it. On the side of this I do the amino acid combo I've posted about in my main thread, there's even a study article about it and its great way to boost HGH and IGF-1 and also aid with weight loss.

That is the theory, effcient HRT will help you do exactly that. Fat distribution change can also be dramatically sped up by Pioglitazone and several other PPAR-gamma activating herbs, but Pio is a very strong diabetes drug and it could be potentially dangerous. If you want to read about it, I've posted again in my main thread and there's quite a bit of talk in trans online scene. With this, proceed with extreme caution or avoid all together as its very potent medication. Typically I've had the weight loss period being shorter than gain due to my activities following the climate quite a bit. I haven't set specific targets on how much I want to lose and gain, its been more about time spent doing each. I don't have a scale at home so it kinda messes this up a bit.

For PPAR-y boosting without side effects of strong medication you should look into the topical protocol, in particular Volufiline and Red Clover extract as these both are known for that effect.

Anyway, from my experience and from what I've read and talked it seems that the best fat distribution changes always happen with decently good HRT and rather dramatic weight loss or gain, or weight cycles which should be quite large in one go and preferably you want to keep gaining more to the feminine spots. Women have naturally higher fat % so keep that in mind, you likely will have your weight end up higher than before, especially if you've been very slim before. I see it too often that a trans woman keeps complaining why is she missing curves, while eating like a bird and going to gym and running like crazy. Super slim and curvy just doesn't happen naturally together, it always requires at least some chub to work out. So don't be afraid of weight gain as there is a way to control it to an extent. Also you're quite tall, more height means more need to compensate to look "same" as someone shorter. Curves will always look stretched out on taller person, this is why I have to compensate a lot, even though I've lost maybe 1,5" of height.

The time you should measure in months per cycle, and for weight I would say 10kg cycle could be quite doable and efficient, and go slow and controlled both ways, too fast would likely lose you the stuff you wish to keep. Something like that, big enough cycle but small enough so its not super hard to pull off. And then just be ready for possible "normal weight" to linger upwards a bit in the long run.

[Christie_xo]

Wow thank you heavens night, this very good advice it really made me understand what I should be doing with my diet and exercise, it also confirmed this same theory I had, when I was younger and more masculine I used to be into body building so this sounds like a very similar routine to bulking and cutting with body builders expect focusing on keeping fat rather than muscle and in a much shorter time period, I will definitely be doing this fat body cycling along with calisthenics and weight lifting targeting my gynoid area.

Thank you all for the helpful advice

[olgaitsuka]

My personal hot takes:

Dosage:
I just started taking 1000mg OB today, 500mg in the morning and 500mg before I go to sleep, along with 1000mg of PM in the morning. I also have been taking 5mg lexapro before I sleep for about two years and 30mg of adderal in the morning for two years as well, I’m not quite sure how this effects me and my goals with OB and PM i would like to know if it does in any way.

I take 1000mg of BO a day myself, alongside 540mg of SP.
So that's 4 BO pills + 1 SP pill, but all at once, and once a day.
I wouldn't recommend mixing animal-based estrogen (BO) with plant-based estrogen (PM) however, since even though both are technically estrogens, they compete with one other, so your absorption will be minimized.

Goals:
I mostly want all lower body changes mainly on my butt, I would like a very curvy feminine hour glass figure. My chest isn’t really a top priority for me but if it shows growth that would be a nice bonus.

It's usually either all or nothing.
I myself don't seek feminization, but to fight balding.
But if I get feminized, then I'm perfectly OK with that, since at least it can be hidden away unlike your hair.

Dieting questions:
My main concern lies in what I should be eating, when I thought about it my mind automatically went to just mostly gaining fat and intaking sufficient protein, but I feel like the fat would hinder the overall curve and hourglass look of my bottom.

Technically depends on what you're eating.
Most of the western world these days is technically plant-based (90% of the junk food is in fact plant-based too), so you might potentially get more out of PM.
Or if you're willing to go more animal-based, then BO might be a better fit.

It's only a theory, but as I stated above, both types of estrogen compete for resources, so I believe that the effects get maximized if you match your type of pills with your type of diet.
I've been eating a carnivore diet for well over a year, so I eat fatty meat and eggs exclusively even to this day, and while most people report breast growing sensations from BO after weeks or months, in my case it started happening after just days.
I'm positive that vegans would get far more success with PM and no success at all with BO, since their diet is already rich in phytoestrogens anyway.

Extra info:
I am really flexible and adaptable when It comes to food intake I can eat less or eat more pretty much however or whenever I need or want to, and I don’t mind putting on a good amount of weight if that helps my goals, I don’t really exercise at all but if there is any exercise recommendations I will be open to implementing them.

Eating less is never a good idea, the type of food you're eating plays a much more important role.
Just stick to high protein, high saturated fat, and low carbs, and you'll automatically maintain an ideal weight.
With or without veggies or fruits, you'll need to figure out how things play out for yourself.
But if obesity is your main concern, just stay as far away from refined sugar, seed/vegetable oils, and starches as possible, and you won't suffer from any illnesses.

[newbu]

Heaven would love to hear more specifically about how you weight cycled, thanks! Gynoid fat deposits is definitely what I’m after.

So eat extra calories to slowly intentionally gain weight and then intentionally lose weight? And because I’m on E all fat gained will be gynoid and all fat lost will be android?

How long for a weight gain period? How much for a weight loss?

Basically yes, its quite simple. For gaining period I've usually took winter as I can't exercise as easily when everything's full of snow and its freezing cold. (Finland) The only thing I do is less frequent fasting and no limits on what I eat, meaning that I eat when ever I'm hungry and not feel shy about beer and ice cream and carbs in general. Mostly I try to eat healthy when I can afford it but its not always easy.

For weight loss, late spring to early autumn is best time and that's not long in our climate. I do frequent walks and hikes and do a lot of 12-18hour fasting periods in a way that I eat last time late afternoon, end up with most of the fast during the night and then hold on with breakfast which is literally breaking the fast in this case. Then I alternate between how many hours I do and about once a week take day or two off of it. On the side of this I do the amino acid combo I've posted about in my main thread, there's even a study article about it and its great way to boost HGH and IGF-1 and also aid with weight loss.

That is the theory, effcient HRT will help you do exactly that. Fat distribution change can also be dramatically sped up by Pioglitazone and several other PPAR-gamma activating herbs, but Pio is a very strong diabetes drug and it could be potentially dangerous. If you want to read about it, I've posted again in my main thread and there's quite a bit of talk in trans online scene. With this, proceed with extreme caution or avoid all together as its very potent medication. Typically I've had the weight loss period being shorter than gain due to my activities following the climate quite a bit. I haven't set specific targets on how much I want to lose and gain, its been more about time spent doing each. I don't have a scale at home so it kinda messes this up a bit.

For PPAR-y boosting without side effects of strong medication you should look into the topical protocol, in particular Volufiline and Red Clover extract as these both are known for that effect.

Anyway, from my experience and from what I've read and talked it seems that the best fat distribution changes always happen with decently good HRT and rather dramatic weight loss or gain, or weight cycles which should be quite large in one go and preferably you want to keep gaining more to the feminine spots. Women have naturally higher fat % so keep that in mind, you likely will have your weight end up higher than before, especially if you've been very slim before. I see it too often that a trans woman keeps complaining why is she missing curves, while eating like a bird and going to gym and running like crazy. Super slim and curvy just doesn't happen naturally together, it always requires at least some chub to work out. So don't be afraid of weight gain as there is a way to control it to an extent. Also you're quite tall, more height means more need to compensate to look "same" as someone shorter. Curves will always look stretched out on taller person, this is why I have to compensate a lot, even though I've lost maybe 1,5" of height.

The time you should measure in months per cycle, and for weight I would say 10kg cycle could be quite doable and efficient, and go slow and controlled both ways, too fast would likely lose you the stuff you wish to keep. Something like that, big enough cycle but small enough so its not super hard to pull off. And then just be ready for possible "normal weight" to linger upwards a bit in the long run.

Lots of thank yous for this info and this might be a very dumb question but when would be the best time to start this loss/gain cycle? For example would it be more effective from day one of HRT or after 3 months?