Yesterday I mentioned NBE in a Reddit post and was immediately flamed by several folks claiming it doesn't work and it was all in my head and nothing but doctor-prescribed HRT works.
This isn't the first time. I should learn my lesson, but it happens every time, from a lot of people, and I'm amazed at the meaness and vehemence. When I ask if they've tried NBE, of course not, so I assume they're just parroting what they've heard elsewhere. I'm just astonished at the emotional investment these folks have in trying to stamp out NBE.
It's not going to derail my program, but where does this come from?
This isn't the first time. I should learn my lesson, but it happens every time, from a lot of people, and I'm amazed at the meaness and vehemence. When I ask if they've tried NBE, of course not, so I assume they're just parroting what they've heard elsewhere. I'm just astonished at the emotional investment these folks have in trying to stamp out NBE.
It's not going to derail my program, but where does this come from?
[moderator notice - unnecessary quoting removed]
I have wondered the same thing on many other forums and discussions. It s not only NBE, but more generally about all supplements and medical matters not in the "official books". My hypothesis is that many people want to believe some absolute truth - coming from doctors and authorities. Telling them that there might be more knowledge outside the "scientifically proven truth" is like cursing in a church, as it hurts their faith.
Unfortunately the medical education, regulatory system, and industry are extremely conservative and want to reserve the "Holy Truth" to them, being The High Priests of this faith. And they keep the Believers strictly in line. No heresy allowed.
I have wondered the same thing on many other forums and discussions. It s not only NBE, but more generally about all supplements and medical matters not in the "official books". My hypothesis is that many people want to believe some absolute truth - coming from doctors and authorities. Telling them that there might be more knowledge outside the "scientifically proven truth" is like cursing in a church, as it hurts their faith.
Unfortunately the medical education, regulatory system, and industry are extremely conservative and want to reserve the "Holy Truth" to them, being The High Priests of this faith. And they keep the Believers strictly in line. No heresy allowed.
Hey all,
First post here, but I had to jump in here:
my background is healthcare research. I have a bunch of letters behind my name and some paperwork to prove it.
anyway Most people will form an opinion based on what they were told first. If I were told the only way to transition was to eat fast food everyday, then you telling me that HRT or NBE would work “better”, I may not believe you.
These people don’t understand how hormones work, nor do they understand that real scientists actually research this. What people on Reddit do is spout of their beliefs without a filter and see what may or not stick. They are closed minded.
this is very common in just about all topics. Mention politics, religion or your favorite sports team, and you will get similar reactions.
First post here, but I had to jump in here:
my background is healthcare research. I have a bunch of letters behind my name and some paperwork to prove it.
anyway Most people will form an opinion based on what they were told first. If I were told the only way to transition was to eat fast food everyday, then you telling me that HRT or NBE would work “better”, I may not believe you.
These people don’t understand how hormones work, nor do they understand that real scientists actually research this. What people on Reddit do is spout of their beliefs without a filter and see what may or not stick. They are closed minded.
this is very common in just about all topics. Mention politics, religion or your favorite sports team, and you will get similar reactions.
This thing has been true for years, and there are a few things out there that reinforce it, unfortunately.
One reason is the supposed danger associated with some specific herbs. For example, on Susan.org, in the HRT section you can find:
"You may not discuss Pueraria Mirifica or Diane-35 on this site at all due to their being linked with serious health complications."
People are scared to death from the stories of blood clotthing that "happened" with PM. The reality is that any hormonal threatment of any potency comes at a risk of blood clotthing, so PM doesn't have to do with it more than any other herb or pharma HRT (even if HRT is usually done while under medical observation, which is always a good idea).
Another reason is the "Trannier than thou" effect. Many people who have been on herbs for years before deciding that they wanted to transition, compare the cost and power of pharma HRT with herbs, and start telling everybody that nothing but HRT is a valid choice. These people are usually the ones that insist you are trans for wanting breasts, or for wearing bras, or for crossdressing... I think that there is some trauma associated with their coming out, and that they feel the need to defend the "only holy way to fem" which would be to quickly transition with HRT at the first sign of femininity. If you suggest that you want to take it easy or even just to live as a NB or male presenting person whiile wanting some breasts, they flip because the notion is somehow painful for them. It's balck or white, with no grey in between.
Anyway, even if these people resurface every once in a while, they then tend to disappear as soon as they make peace with themselves. Obviously, the annoying stigma on NBE frequently outlives their internet rants, and some more will come in the future.
One reason is the supposed danger associated with some specific herbs. For example, on Susan.org, in the HRT section you can find:
"You may not discuss Pueraria Mirifica or Diane-35 on this site at all due to their being linked with serious health complications."
People are scared to death from the stories of blood clotthing that "happened" with PM. The reality is that any hormonal threatment of any potency comes at a risk of blood clotthing, so PM doesn't have to do with it more than any other herb or pharma HRT (even if HRT is usually done while under medical observation, which is always a good idea).
Another reason is the "Trannier than thou" effect. Many people who have been on herbs for years before deciding that they wanted to transition, compare the cost and power of pharma HRT with herbs, and start telling everybody that nothing but HRT is a valid choice. These people are usually the ones that insist you are trans for wanting breasts, or for wearing bras, or for crossdressing... I think that there is some trauma associated with their coming out, and that they feel the need to defend the "only holy way to fem" which would be to quickly transition with HRT at the first sign of femininity. If you suggest that you want to take it easy or even just to live as a NB or male presenting person whiile wanting some breasts, they flip because the notion is somehow painful for them. It's balck or white, with no grey in between.
Anyway, even if these people resurface every once in a while, they then tend to disappear as soon as they make peace with themselves. Obviously, the annoying stigma on NBE frequently outlives their internet rants, and some more will come in the future.
Once like 6 months ago I tried to join a MTF Discord (not mentioning name) and the person prescreening me immediately stopped when they found out I was on NBE. They pretty much told me I was not trans but a femboy with a fetish and not welcome. To be frank I slightly took this personally, but I'm used to bigotry in my life and I'm kind of numb to most of it.
I do know I would never treat someone so rudely but that is THEIR problem not mine.
~Zhu
I do know I would never treat someone so rudely but that is THEIR problem not mine.
~Zhu
This post was last modified: 06-04-2023, 10:58 PM by Zhuzhu.
Zhu, Lucky for you that you discovered quickly in the screening process that the board is slanted towards transition via HRT. Their perspective is skewd and not truly reflective of the real world.
Some people just have a hard time with anything that clashes with their beliefs - many of which are not their own.
When I first stumbled upon any sort of notion of male NBE, my reaction was, I wonder if that is even possible?
Closed mindedness prevents the similarly curious as to the actual possibilities.
When I first stumbled upon any sort of notion of male NBE, my reaction was, I wonder if that is even possible?
Closed mindedness prevents the similarly curious as to the actual possibilities.
(27-03-2023, 07:21 PM)Cunningluvr Wrote: Yesterday I mentioned NBE in a Reddit post and was immediately flamed by several folks claiming it doesn't work and it was all in my head and nothing but doctor-prescribed HRT works.
This isn't the first time. I should learn my lesson, but it happens every time, from a lot of people, and I'm amazed at the meaness and vehemence. When I ask if they've tried NBE, of course not, so I assume they're just parroting what they've heard elsewhere. I'm just astonished at the emotional investment these folks have in trying to stamp out NBE.
It's not going to derail my program, but where does this come from?
i think a lot of the people on redit are young and the younger you are the moor dificult it is to grow breasts with NBE becouse at a young age youve got much moor testosterone in you system and that make it so much harder to get results .
im 70 years old soon been on herbals for about 6 years off and on have grown a desent B cup breasts with large nipples have actuly stoped a couple of time cos they were getting to big getting to hard to hide .
so i think it does depend where your starting from but your right i have come across some very agressive coments off girls that are on perscription HRT
(10-04-2023, 08:13 AM)debbieTV Wrote: im 70 years old soon been on herbals for about 6 years off and on have grown a desent B cup breasts with large nipples have actuly stoped a couple of time cos they were getting to big getting to hard to hide .
so i think it does depend where your starting from but your right i have come across some very agressive coments off girls that are on perscription HRT
Hi Debbie,
I can totally relate to what you said, especially about testosterone levels at older ages. When I was in my 20s I didn't have the opportunities that young people have today. To admit I am transgender would have been social suicide. I don't think youngsters today realize how good they have it socially. Anyway I just press on with my progress, my journey is mine and I have wisdom from my years as well as patience.
Zhu
(advertisement)