I will do my best to find the paragraph for you

J

Still trying to find the damn paragraph but basically its simple

under the new reccomendations if

anyone presents themselves with occurring gender "occupying" thoughts which are invasive more than a few times per day , whether they dress or not , the doctor cannot refuse referral for estrogen,


Julie

Are you referring to this: WPATH Standards of Care, Version 7

If so, the .pdf can be downloaded from this page:

http://www.wpath.org/site_page.cfm?pk_association_webpage=3926&pk_association_webpage_menu=1351

Thank you @Verge.

@Julie it seems to me that "cannot refuse to give Estrogen" and "could use Estrogen to diagnose dysphoria" are two very different things.

Can we please Stop this!
it`s co-opting my thread, and I really don`t want it to turn into a testosterone-fueled pissing contest

quite agree
x

Julie

I`v read Many Many threads and had several conversations with people that all report that when they started any sort of HRT, whether it be E or PM etc... that their desire to "dress" went away.
They no longer had any interest in Femme things anymore, and of course as soon as they stopped, it came back again.

what I want to know is Why this didn`t happen to me? Istarted on PM then E and  went on to Transition and living full time!?

so what was wrong with me that it didn`t work?

So, back to original question...

Katie, IMHO I don’t think anything is wrong with you. I’ve dressed en femme since a very early age, and when I first began NBE with herbs and then PM, nothing changed. I still chose feminine clothing at home and underneath when I went out, unless it was a social event where I was comfortable presenting as female. Even tho’ I’m thin, at 6’3” I can marginally pass at best! The longer I was on feminizing herbs the more I wanted to present... my previous gender fluidity tipped more and more to female. As I’ve described earlier, taking the next step was not an option for me. So, I’ve learned to accept and appreciate my fluidity, even tho’ it is very frustrating at times. For instance, when I’m at a social event I tend to gravitate to a group of women chatting, which is misconstrued in all kinds of ways. To me, I’m just hanging out with the girls! 

BTW, cheers on getting your nails done! A dear GG friend of mine arranged an after hours makeover for me several years ago, and it was the most wonderful experience!

Jenn

@Aria @Pansy The definition of transgender that I know involves gender dysphoria. There are a number of individuals on this forum that are "proudly" men and happy to be so. Have a look in the Males Staying Male section for reference. I don't think that they (we) are a minority to be honest.

Gender doctors usually classify as transgender any deviation fro cisgender. Some, few, use the term genderqueer for those people that are neither trans nor cis, but I don't think that there even is a definition for cisgender individuals that change their body, not necessarily their appearance towards society, to mimic that of the opposite sex.
The closest definition would be "cisgender transexuals", but then again we (MsM on this forum) have no interest in SRS, that is usually connected with transexualism, and frequently the only confirmation we need from society is of being male and not female.
Our push for crossdressing, as Aria correctly states, is mainly a fetish. As such, it is for sexual gratification (mostly), therefore it ceases when out sex drive lowers. Since one of the effects of E on the male body is a reduced sex drive, here's the ansver to Katie's question from a cisgender male crossdresser point of view.

Katie's case, like many other, is one of transgenderism that leads to transexualism. Most probably it's not testosterone driven and it's hardly ever been a fetish. And that's why with her "it didn't work".

Shirazmn:  I, along with Lotus, were the ones that pushed Eve into entertaining the idea of "Male Staying Male" section.  But, I believe I am physically and mentally stuck in both worlds.  I.E. Man/Woman.  And you are probably right about the majority being in that class....   Whatever that means.  I have seen many young boys play with their sisters playing with dolls.....   But at least in one case, he became an MP in the U.S. Army.  He stands 6'2"  and looks like an up side down pyramid.  I never thought he was trans, nor is he.  The point is, everyone has quirks and oddities.  Some grow out of them, and others live fine lives that are enriched by them same quirks.  But going from quirks to Dysphoria is all where in the line does it impede your daily life.

I truly don't consider myself Transexual, cause I do NOT want to live every day as a woman, nor do I want my "outie" to be turned into an "innie".  I want to have a choice everyday of rather I stand to pee and zip up afterwards or to drop my panties and sit to pee.  So, hence I have to accept the title of Transgender.   I dunno what to tell you...  You probably don't understand me any better than I do you.  

I think a lot of times some people just can't handle having the inner knowledge and not being able to do anything about it.   Hence some are driven to secretly crossdress while others let it fester into full blown dysphoria.   But, I am not qualified to charge $200 an hr for my thoughts, so  forget it..

Jenn

at the risk of diluting poor katies thread

we need more input from you

start a thread

you fluidity sounds interesting

sorry Katie ? lol

now where is my Zinc lollipop, oops not that fluid

x

Julie

Sorry @Katie. I had no intention of hijacking the thread. Nice one on the testostetone. I see what you did there .

@Jenn and @Julie I wrote about gender fluidity in a previois reply and I don't want to repeat myself, particularly after @Katie's request. I am happy to continue this conversation elsewhere.