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Question: Effects of workout and weight loss while on PM?

#1

Hi

I think I will try and lose some weight before the summer. I am currently taking PM (OV 250mg pill 10:1 concentration once a day). Previously I had been on PM and other herbs. Measurements place me in the 40A category but bra tables list me in the 40C.

My idea was to do some abs-firming excercises withouy pushing too much on my chest muscles. Essentially, I have a beer belly that needs a trim.

Has anyone tried light workout while on PM? What has the effect been regarding the size and shape of chest and breast tissue?

Thank you
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#2

Hi, Shirazmn,

I can't tell you how PM will affect the workouts, but I can suggest key elements for working out.
- Decline bench press, builds bottom of the Pectorals, to make a larger projection: Do a bodybuilding routine (chase the pump)
- Hip exercises as Lananonymousmentioned: http://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=27344&pid=194529#pid194529
     - special interest here: http://www.criticalbench.com/train_widen_hips.htm and http://bretcontreras.com/growing-glutes-...-the-legs/ 

That leaves how to trim the waste (spelling intentional), and that's where it gets ugly. The above stuff can be worked into a 3X/week workout scheme; the rest needs to be done daily.
1 - clean up the diet, and check your portions.
     A - Velocity diet or Slim-fast dieting would help if breakfasts are an issue. Velocity diet is better overall; you can hybridize a bunch of things, too, from Ketogenic or Paleo or Blood Sugar Diet. That means, take the recipes and portions, and sort out a diet schedule. a 2/1 or 5/2 diet works well. (2/1: 2 days high protein followed by one day of high carbs. that means 60% of the diet is protein for two days, with 20% carbs and 20% fat, followed by 1 day of 60% carbs, 20% protein, 20% fat.
5/2 means it's not as strict on the days, you just make 2 non-consecutive days semi-fasted - no more than 800 calories in a day. Don't do it on the weight lifting days, choose "off" days.
Blood Sugar Diet is great if diabetic, and with some apple cider vinegar, you might be able to get off meds, but that'll depend on the body. Just a random note.)

With diet addressed:
The hardest part is being IN MOTION all the time you can.
Improvising around that, use half hour sessions of interval training, and/or HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training), HIIT being more like 15 minutes. And you can "cheat" a little, by setting the interval session to 30 minutes, but also breaking the session up for sets of ab exercises. So, 10 minutes on the machine, followed by a set of crunches; repeat. Objective is to get blood into the muscle tissue under the fat layer, which then increases the fat drawn from that location. Minor increase, but 1% over time, it's like compound interest....  Accumulates over time.
That would have to be done as often as possible, talking 2 sessions / day, with weights replacing one session per day. (Note, too, this can be hybridized: the treadmill walk from critical bench can be done in a fasted state, and you keep your heart rate low, it's just walking. This could be done for an hour, with the right supplements, following a T-nation article here: https://www.t-nation.com/training/ultima...-disclosed - And there are others, you can walk as much as possible and get better all around. This one is specifically fat loss using a low-intensity level, fasted approach.

Can also use that time to practice high heels walking, and there are even high-heeled sneakers (wedge design).

To step it up, add sessions of sprints or similar high intensity stuff (e.g., shuttle run). Then you can go walking to burn the fat the high intensity training frees from those fat cells.

Last note on the waist trimming, one to consider really hard: Twists and hula hooping. Twists were Pinnochia's idea, high volume, unweighted, daily, waist twists. She showed it raising the visible waist. Hula hooping would build on that, and there are kits out there which will allow you to learn how to effectively hula hoop - activating all the core muscles, but not building them like a body builder.

You want to train like a body builder for certain muscles and certain results (makes for low body fat), but you'll actually want to PUT BACK certain fat levels in certain locations. Maybe off-label volufilene use? :-)   I mention this because at a social gathering, I ran into a Trans* individual who showed very male behaviors (MTF), and - VERY defined muscles in the legs. Not big - but ZERO fat deposits, making for an unpleasant line. No softness, just angles and muscle. She was probably about 160, but had gotten there by dieting alone, and no concern for where the fat had come from or been lost from. And from prior experience, I've seen women so skinny WRT body fat, you could pick out muscle striations in her glutes, through leggings; she didn't have the deep declivity under the quads (made a line running from hip to knee, probably 1/2" or so deep, which accentuated the muscle mass - which was not excessive. But she looked like a man that way, not even a Crossfitter or female body builder. So we want to avoid that, and even put fat back in to ensure curves.)

The one thing I DO know about using any sort of estrogen is, it changes how the muscles use energy. Men can do more work with poor form and heavier weights. Women can approach closer to their maximum weight, while retaining good form. So, a man gets sloppy around 80% 1RM ( One Rep Max). Woman can get to 90% or even 95% 1RM - but she's doing 125#, he's doing 300#. He's got another 75# at least in him; she's almost topped out. But, she can also train hard again the next day - he can't.
Specialization.  :-) Got to love it.

I'm working on some ideas myself, but - life is too busy to codify and make a product of it. "Maybe tomorrow..." :-P

Question always comes down to, what trade-offs will you make to achieve what you want?
I don't get to move most days - 8-10 hours is spent sitting. 2 hours commuting. and most of the time at home is spent sitting, too. So, I have been training to sit on my fat @$$.
You see how life reflects our "goals," right?  ;-)

Congratulations on planning to change that, and best of luck. I'll see if I can get some time to complete the project for training...  If so, I'll post the Alpha version here, and we can refine it for everyone.

-Dianna

PS: Another good article, on walking, I just found: https://www.t-nation.com/training/get-ri...et-walking
Talks about getting moving to burn fat. Getting moving with walking, or just getting moving.
When to Walk

Timing isn't super crucial when it comes to walking. If you just want to be fitter and healthier then walk whenever you can. The total duration doesn't even have to be continuous. If you want to burn fat, the best time to walk is in the morning before breakfast.

The second best time to walk is right after a tough weight-training workout –the workout will have burned off a fair amount of glycogen, leaving your body ready to tap into fat –and the third best time is basically any time you can.
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#3

Thank you Dianna, that was very informative. I will need to research some of the names you put in there to see how I can integrate any of them into my daily life.

I, like you, have little time to exercise because I work in an office 9.30 - 6 plus 1 hour and half commute and, since I recently became a father, my free time is down to almost nothing. Ergo, no gym. I guess that the diet will be where I'll make the most of the changes.
I currently walk at least 2.0 miles per day (I know it's not much) and I have to organise my day to be able to do something else without stealing time from my family.


Thank you for the advices on what NOT to do. Those are definitely useful. The last thing I want is to lose the growth I got; if anything I hope that losing some belly will have the effect of "tightening" my skin and help a tiny bit with projection.

Shiraz

P.s. good one on the "high heel exercise". I wish I could do that. The wife doesn't have many problems at home with my heeling, but a 7 months old baby and narrow stairs are not playing in my favour. Also, shoe makers seem to thinkg that people with large feet (size 9 or 10 UK / 12 US) don't deserve "stealth mode" wedge shoes. Sad
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#4

(10-04-2017, 03:17 PM)Shirazmn Wrote:  Thank you Dianna, that was very informative. I will need to research some of the names you put in there to see how I can integrate any of them into my daily life.

I, like you, have little time to exercise because I work in an office 9.30 - 6 plus 1 hour and half commute and, since I recently became a father, my free time is down to almost nothing. Ergo, no gym. I guess that the diet will be where I'll make the most of the changes.
I currently walk at least 2.0 miles per day (I know it's not much) and I have to organise my day to be able to do something else without stealing time from my family.


Thank you for the advices on what NOT to do. Those are definitely useful. The last thing I want is to lose the growth I got; if anything I hope that losing some belly will have the effect of "tightening" my skin and help a tiny bit with projection.

Shiraz

P.s. good one on the "high heel exercise". I wish I could do that. The wife doesn't have many problems at home with my heeling, but a 7 months old baby and narrow stairs are not playing in my favour. Also, shoe makers seem to thinkg that people with large feet (size 9 or 10 UK / 12 US) don't deserve "stealth mode" wedge shoes. Sad
Shirazmn,
I think we're on the same page WRT foot size.
But there are ways to make them smaller with training, mostly by stretching. For Stealth heels, you'll need to work out a way to nest heels inside work boots. I saw it done once, you need to put the female heels inside male work boots, and if you go cheap, you can easily make some on the stealth side. Just "grow" an inch or so every few months. $20 (US) workboots and $20 heels, even if you need to do so over time, it'll work for you, and might even be aggressive to go only a few months. But the heel itself is hidden in the boot... 

I'm a size 11.
The stretches are going to take years, but: lock the toes and press up against something, like a desk panel or drawers. Repeat frequently. Hold for at least 30 seconds.
Over time, the arch will become more pronounced (which is more feminine), and the "footprint" will shrink. Younger is better for this...  ;-) But we go to life with the time we've got.  :-)

One thing, a real problem depending on your objectives -
to get "masculine":
Train hard and heavy
Train frequently
Full body + lots of activity

To get "feminine":
Jogging especially (Eats lean body mass)
aerobic workouts (hour or so; not the walking above)
Body building routines to target
          Gluteals, especially Gluteus Medius (Dirty Dawgs / Fire hydrants)
          Pectoralis (Use Decline Bench Press)
          SOME shoulder development (wider shoulders offset waist, but we don't want to overdo; depends on your current development, you might want to do strength training here)
          Do Squats, Pull throughs, Dirty Dawgs; maybe make a lower-body circuit, with a set of decline benches and ab exercises. (My target in my dream world where I have time.)
                    For the squats, need to look at Sumo Squat / Sumo Deadlift; and kneeling squats, so the emphasis stays on the butt, not the legs.

If that program 3 days a week gets going to build the proper spots, and then you use jogging and walking (say, burn fat by fasted HH walking and side walking for an hour or so), and then jogging on the "off" workout days - should limit and reverse muscle growth in those male areas, and keep / gain in the female areas - making a big difference in a 6 month to year period.
Then drop the jogging, and count on PM to minimize "bad" muscle growth. (Remember though that as you get older, you'd lose muscle anyway, and that gets you fat - loss of LBM = weak body, and osteoporosis if not managed with load-bearing exercises. Need to think long-term, and we humans aren't good at that.  ;-)   )

I'm thinking I might be able to make a program, if I had time for the next year.  :-)

But to "stay male" and look femme, you need to change it up even more, and go to calisthenics and volume. I don't know enough about that...  But you can go to YouTube and look up strength tests or "strength wars" I think it is, and they pit weighlifters and bodybuilders against calisthenics guys often enough that you can see: weighlifters, etc, dominate - but cannot do the moves a calisthenics expert can pull off.  E.G., Dragon Flag, or Parkour practitioners - and those guys (and girls) are ripped, too, but not the same solid body content. Not massive meat mountains. But can move their body all over the place!

If I can figure out THAT part, and make a short, ugly, resistance training set, that would be golden. 

Unfortunately the paying part of life is a demanding IT job...  :-)

-Dianna
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#5

I find it much harder to lose fat while on PM.

Do be careful with the abs work, if you aren't able to lose fat, gaining muscle there is just going to make your belly look even bigger. Spot reduction doesn't work, the fat you lose from working out any muscle isn't necessarily going to come from the area of the body being worked out.

I've been trying pretty hard for over a year and have barely lost about 15 pounds. I do think quite a bit of it has redistributed to my chest though.  Smile

I don't totally want to stay male, and I have a vision of what I want my body to look like, don't know how close I can get to it. I basically want the torso and legs of a woman, but keep the somewhat muscular arms I have now.

I may not have quite tried my hardest the whole time because it's frustrating to see so little results compared to when I was trying to work out to be more masculine. I really need to step it up.

I don't see any reason why one can't just do the get feminine workout and add some biceps and triceps work. I think I'll do something like this.
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