[rachel-rache]

Hi, this isn't exactly NBE, but I feel like it's related and the experience from people in this subforum may be able to answer my question.

Issue
I've been feeling this weird sensation persistently for the last few days. I can only best describe it as a persistent tickling of somewhere that feels like deep in my brain like in my brain stem (even though I know we don't have any nerve endings for sensation there). It feels like the only thing that can relieve it is shuddering, giggling (like you're high) or crying. Emotionally I think I feel fine and relatively normal. Again, this feeling is subtle so it isn't more than a slight annoyance/peculiarity/titillation, but it is definitely enough for me to be thinking about it a lot throughout the day.

Background
I started just finasteride (an anti-androgen) about 4 and a half months ago. Actually part of my reason for starting it is in the slight hopes of it causing some gynecomastia or at least some nipple enlargement/sensitivity. I'm also a very nipple-centric person and consider that as my primary sex organ so I play with it often.

The enlargement, sensitivity, and slight darkening definitely happened relatively early. However, more recently the sensitivity has continued to increase.

Question
So, I am wondering if this weird tickling feeling (even when I'm not moving) has something to do with this. Seeing that people on an NBE program are also on T-blockers with higher ratios of E to T, have any of you felt something like this during your initial stages? I would like to know if this is normal or if this is something else more serious.

Thank you every one!
*big hug*

[jannet.duff]

I have never heard of this side effect. It Sounds like you should make an appointment to discuss this with your doctor, just in case.

www.rxlist.com/script/main/mobileart-rx.asp?drug=proscar&monotype=rx-desc&monopage=0

Even the known side effects do not include this.

[Katie]

my Guess is that it Could be something to do with your Nerves perhaps, 5AR can affect the Mylin sheathing around the nerves, OR it could be a Dopamine effect similar to that in Restless Leg Syndrome, I think Fin can affect dopamine too.
Or it`s probably non of those

[Lotus]

Maybe too much GABA is being inhibited?, though as the study points out, results may vary. Personally, I believe serotonin should be stimulated (more) during daytime hours while GABA and growth hormone at night.

allopregnanolone (ALLO) and Tetrahidroteoxicorticosterone (THDOC) (allosteric modulators) of GABA-A receptors.

The way finasteride causes post finasteride syndrome in certain individuals is unknown. Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), but also causes changes in testosterone levels, LH and FSH.

Finasteride also blocks the biosynthesis of various neuro steroids such as allopregnanolone (ALLO) and Tetrahidroteoxicorticosterone (THDOC), which are isoforms of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase. ALLO and THDOC are positive modulators (allosteric modulators) of GABA-A receptors, which have the same mechanism of action of anxiolytic drugs such as benzodiazepines.

Finasteride has been shown to inhibit the biosynthesis of these neuro steroids, which can be one of the causes for the emotional and sexual symptoms reported. However, some symptoms, such as muscle wasting, loss of body hair and the continuation of symptoms long after the medication has been discontinued, have not been explained yet. Because some patients with SPF have normal or high levels of testosterone - but at the same time a complete clinical state of hypogonadism - it has been hypothesized that these individuals have developed a form of resistance to androgen hormones.

Characterization of brain neurons that express enzymes mediating neurosteroid biosynthesis.

Abstract
Allopregnanolone (ALLO) and tetrahydrodeoxycorticosterone (THDOC) are potent positive allosteric modulators of GABA action at GABA(A) receptors. ALLO and THDOC are synthesized in the brain from progesterone or deoxycorticosterone, respectively, by the sequential action of two enzymes: 5alpha-reductase (5alpha-R) type I and 3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3alpha-HSD). This study evaluates 5alpha-R type I and 3alpha-HSD mRNA expression level in mouse brain by using in situ hybridization combined with glutamic acid decarboxylase 67/65, vesicular glutamate transporter 2, glial fibrillary acidic protein, and S100beta immunohistochemistry. We demonstrate that 5alpha-R type I and 3alpha-HSD colocalize in cortical, hippocampal, and olfactory bulb glutamatergic principal neurons and in some output neurons of the amygdala and thalamus. Neither 5alpha-R type I nor 3alpha-HSD mRNAs are expressed in S100beta- or glial fibrillary acidic protein-positive glial cells. Using glutamic acid decarboxylase 67/65 antibodies to mark GABAergic neurons, we failed to detect 5alpha-R type I and 3alpha-HSD in cortical and hippocampal GABAergic interneurons. However, 5alpha-R type I and 3alpha-HSD are significantly expressed in principal GABAergic output neurons, such as striatal medium spiny, reticular thalamic nucleus, and cerebellar Purkinje neurons. A similar distribution and cellular location of neurosteroidogenic enzymes was observed in rat brain. Taken together, these data suggest that ALLO and THDOC, which can be synthesized in principal output neurons, modulate GABA action at GABA(A) receptors, either with an autocrine or a paracrine mechanism or by reaching GABA(A) receptor intracellular sites through lateral membrane diffusion.

[Lotus]

Though, males do (mid 30's and up) have more active brain aromatase sites then females, I remember seeing a chart displaying the active zones, it was astonishing stuff, really.

[rachel-rache]

Though, males do (mid 30's and up) have more active brain aromatase sites then females, I remember seeing a chart displaying the active zones, it was astonishing stuff, really.

Wow, this actually makes sense, thanks for the response guys! I wikipedia'd GABA and got that "it plays the principal role in reducing neuronal excitability throughout the nervous system".

Hence, with reduced GABA, perhaps parts of my brain is feeling too excited and unregulated.

Lotus, do you have some examples of what specific supplements these would point to:
"Personally, I believe serotonin should be stimulated (more) during daytime hours while GABA and growth hormone at night." I've perused NBE before and don't remember too much talk about growth hormones.

Thanks!

[Lotus]

Though, males do (mid 30's and up) have more active brain aromatase sites then females, I remember seeing a chart displaying the active zones, it was astonishing stuff, really.

Wow, this actually makes sense, thanks for the response guys! I wikipedia'd GABA and got that "it plays the principal role in reducing neuronal excitability throughout the nervous system".

Hence, with reduced GABA, perhaps parts of my brain is feeling too excited and unregulated.

Lotus, do you have some examples of what specific supplements these would point to:
"Personally, I believe serotonin should be stimulated (more) during daytime hours while GABA and growth hormone at night." I've perused NBE before and don't remember too much talk about growth hormones.

Thanks!

Progesterone (cream) upregulates GABA, thus taking it at bedtime would be preferable in lowering excitability and promoting deeper sleep, which helps with the release of growth hormones, the first two of hours of sleep being the highest peak of GH though. For me, a nighttime growth supplementation is using MSM, bromelain (from pineapple) which breaks down amino acids into repair peptides, or simply put stronger collagen. Other things I think of are introducing prolactin at bedtime while simultaneously introducing progesterone (as estrogen will be lowered).......milk thistle is what I would reach for, and a good ol' nipple stimulation works too. Vitex is possible too, though I would try to keep it between 40mg to 120mg.

In another thought, sodium chloride (found in saline nose sprays) is in my opinion a intercellular communicator capable of promoting cellular synthesis of hormones. We could talk about that later though.

[rachel-rache]

Ahh, I probably should be taking estrogen first before taking growth hormones...

I haven't done vigorous research yet, I know there are some sticky threads, but Lotus, do you think 1 mg daily of finasteride is strong enough of an anti-androgen to use with PM such that my liver won't be damaged?

[Lotus]

Ahh, I probably should be taking estrogen first before taking growth hormones...

I haven't done vigorous research yet, I know there are some sticky threads, but Lotus, do you think 1 mg daily of finasteride is strong enough of an anti-androgen to use with PM such that my liver won't be damaged?

The information from studies I've seen indicate finasteride at all dosages inhibit DHT, starting within the first 2 weeks, though long term consistent use will have more results. Published reports say fin was well tolerated.........everyone is different so beware it could impact your health (liver too) differently than those " well tolerated " individuals.

[rachel-rache]

The information from studies I've seen indicate finasteride at all dosages inhibit DHT, starting within the first 2 weeks, though long term consistent use will have more results. Published reports say fin was well tolerated.........everyone is different so beware it could impact your health (liver too) differently than those " well tolerated " individuals.

Ahh, so sounds like there's a good chance I would be fine healthwise, and it is a strong enough t-blocker by itself to pair with PM? I wouldn't need to take SP or reishi root or something in addition?