[Lotus]

Hello to all:

I'd like to address an issue that I think is disrupting the forum, the attitude of mistrust between transwomen and non-trans men at Breast Nexus. Ironically, we are so far removed from talking about growing breast it's not even funny. When males seeking breast growth start at Breast Nexus they most likely will start with NBE, at some point one might decide NBE isn't enough and choose on transitioning. Prior to all that, using all the NBE tools here at BN including communicating with other (non-trans) men are deemed acceptable.

When does it becomes unacceptable to associate with men seeking breast growth after deciding on transition?, why then do they become the ones with the fetish. There's no existing "code of conduct" that communicating with other non-trans men will infect the well-being of being trans, (come on, that's nonsense) testosterone won't rub off or transfer telepathically. We can't let the fears or transphobia (yes, even from other trans) of a few dictate the flow of the forum.

I support BOTH sides because I am BOTH sides, I am male, and I am transgendered female, which means I am gender fluid. Only, I identify more as male, even though my body says I'm more female........which is my goal.

Some non-trans see "trans-supremacy" being forced upon them and the forum, whether it's intentional or not it can cause some friction with non-trans men, I can understand that. I can also understand that transwomen might be feeling excluded from the rest of the forum. And, I can even understand that the genetic girls here can take exception to all the fuss on this side of the forum. Emotions are running high, regardless of that, the forum is open to all sides.

No conspiracy exists, no lines to be drawn, no battle to be fought or won (we create the drama in our own minds). The forum will not be divided/split, it won't lean trans or non-trans, it's middle ground. First and foremost, it's for supporting breast growth. (Who am I to say all this?, nobody special, just a friend to the forum).

[The First Aria]

Hi Lotus, I can not speak for all "Non Trans Men" but only for myself. I for one, never thought there was a conspiracy, only about 3 -5 people who run both sides of the spectrum.

I liken the Full Trans Bio Males to a new Non Smoker. They used to enjoy being a man, but for whatever reason, choose to go full trans. I really don't have a problem other than now is seems a very few of them are very contentious of the guys who, at present or in the future, do not want to go full trans. Like a smoker who quit smoking, now cant put up with anyone who still does.

As far as a full blown Bio Female, there is only 1 or 2 that comes to my mind. I have no working theory other than it might suggest they are simply intolerant of the Male Spectrum on the other side of the board. But, with a few of the Full Trans Men, whom they may of in their mind allied with.

Some women, for instance my wife, have adopted what I call the male persona. By that I mean, my wife wears, almost exclusively jeans, slacks and blouses that a male could wear if he didn't mind the fact it buttons from the opposite side. Also, in the last 10 - 15 yrs has also adopted a very short hairdo. We have all seen this get more and more gender bending on the side of Bio Women.

But, for some reason, if us men adopt longer hair, like silky undergarments, or wanna wear skirts, kilts and the such.... Boy, does the proverbial stuff hit the fan. Thank God, my wife accepts to a certain degree my desire for feminine undergarments. She now supports the fact that I should wear a bra when I want. But still, she dresses the way I just described.

No, I really don't think it a Trans-Conspiracy, but rather what I refer to as "Militant Millie's" who is bent on throwing monkey wrench's or instead of walking away, they must stir the pot and cause problems.

That is why now I am hopeful that this will calm down some since some of us Non Trans Men have a safe zone where our supporters, friends and like minded persons can hopefully get away from the few who cant leave well enough alone.

For that, I must thank you and Eve for even entertaining my original concept let alone implementing it.

[Lenneth]

Personally I don't care if a member just wants breasts or wants to transition, that is their business not mine, I try to help all equally if I can.

I just don't understand how anyone on a community like this could see any need to create divisions.

[Lenneth]

Hi Lotus, I can not speak for all "Non Trans Men" but only for myself. I for one, never thought there was a conspiracy, only about 3 -5 people who run both sides of the spectrum.

I liken the Full Trans Bio Males to a new Non Smoker. They used to enjoy being a man, but for whatever reason, choose to go full trans. I really don't have a problem other than now is seems a very few of them are very contentious of the guys who, at present or in the future, do not want to go full trans. Like a smoker who quit smoking, now cant put up with anyone who still does.

That is quite a good Analogy.

As far as a full blown Bio Female, there is only 1 or 2 that comes to my mind. I have no working theory other than it might suggest they are simply intolerant of the Male Spectrum on the other side of the board. But, with a few of the Full Trans Men, whom they may of in their mind allied with.

I have encoutered a few like that before on other forums (& IRL), and only 1 here.

Some women, for instance my wife, have adopted what I call the male persona. By that I mean, my wife wears, almost exclusively jeans, slacks and blouses that a male could wear if he didn't mind the fact it buttons from the opposite side. Also, in the last 10 - 15 yrs has also adopted a very short hairdo. We have all seen this get more and more gender bending on the side of Bio Women.

But, for some reason, if us men adopt longer hair, like silky undergarments, or wanna wear skirts, kilts and the such.... Boy, does the proverbial stuff hit the fan. Thank God, my wife accepts to a certain degree my desire for feminine undergarments. She now supports the fact that I should wear a bra when I want. But still, she dresses the way I just described.

I have no shortage of female relitives that are like that but also have "0" tolerance for any microscopic hint of femininity in genetic males (many are T.E.R.F's), makes me want to puke quite often.

No, I really don't think it a Trans-Conspiracy, but rather what I refer to as "Militant Millie's" who is bent on throwing monkey wrench's or instead of walking away, they must stir the pot and cause problems.

That is why now I am hopeful that this will calm down some since some of us Non Trans Men have a safe zone where our supporters, friends and like minded persons can hopefully get away from the few who cant leave well enough alone.

For that, I must thank you and Eve for even entertaining my original concept let alone implementing it.

I don't think any segregation will help much less solve that kind of problem, it is a bit like if your dog took a dump on the floor and all you do is cover it with a paper towel/plastic sheet, the problem is still there, and eventually someone will step in it & track it around.

[karolina]

ya I see the conspiracy and iam full transsexual female . o just a note trans man is a terms used for female to male individuals . so any one that is not transitioning is just male . but yes I understand wat everyone is saying but I also understand my trans sisters . but will not get into that can of worms . transsexual women that want to split stuff up or frown upon males that want breast and still stay male . must really then just go get implants and stop trying to mess up a community that bring so much freedom to so many . ♡ ♥ ♡
kind regards

[Miranda-nata-est]

I personally have no axe to grind with anyone at all. Exactly the opposite in fact.

I don't know whether I would have eventually discovered the true me without BN or not, but I do know that I would be nowhere near the person I am today without the input of the whole gender spectrum here.

The reason I preferred non segregated forums was just that, they were non segregated. This resulted in the fact that I ended up reading and assimilating material which I would probably not have looked at had it been in discrete forums. I didn't know I was a female, I didn't have a clue I was a candidate for transition therefore I wouldn't have sought out material relevant to the trans world (other than maybe curiosity).

My reasons for wanting the forums to stay as an entangled sequence of topics was based on the effect it has had on my life. It is probably not an exaggeration to say that discovering who I am has probably saved me - I had been on a self destruct path for so many years that realistically, my days must have been numbered.

That has all changed now and I give thanks with all my heart to those of all persuasions here at BN.

What I didn't want done is to disadvantage others who may be in the same position I was and who may not now find answers to the questions they don't know they have. I still feel that divided sections have just that effect although I will of course go along with the majority.


The other thing I think is that segregation here in a way, just goes to reinforce the segregation that is rife in the outside world. There is no doubt that a proportion of the trans world seem to go around with a huge great chip on their shoulder and seem hell bent on creating the divides that this topic is presumably addressing in so many ways. That is not universally the case. I haven't personally seen much evidence of that here at BN.


So I agree totally, live and let live.


Miranda


PS I didn't realise it either until fully on the transition trail, but there is absolutely no way that anyone can begin to get inside the heads of those who have made the decision to transition. Most of the changes are unseen and mental. Unless you have first hand experience of the process, you will be unable to grasp the duality that exists between the female and male persona. It permeates and alters absolutely every aspect of one's life. It is truely impossible to explain the reality of the changes in depth to others who have not experienced it, I just don't have the vocabulary to do so and those who have not undergone it, will not have an experience framework to understand it anyway..

[SarahSchilling]

Um, I never enjoyed being a guy. I never even considered myself to be a "guy". Lol

Maybe it's different for others who are older with families, I don't know.




Then again, I also don't treat transitioning as a religion, nor the reason for my existence. I never had a dual personality, there is no male side or female side, I am just me. My hobbies have not changed, i still am the same person. I don't really get the need to try to imitate some stereotypical caricature of what a woman is supposed to spend her time doing, because I blend in just fine and most people I know don't know me as anything other than a fun girl named Sarah. (Who has some odd tastes )

Lol, I probably get along better with males just wanting boobs than I do with most trans people whom I meet. Most TGs seem to make such a huge deal about it that it ends up defining them as people. I don't want nor do I see the need for that. Maybe it's an age thing, because my fiancée is much the same, as are some of the younger trans people I've met.

Basically, there are always exceptions.

On a side note, I will gladly acknowledge that I was born, both physically and genetically, as a male. Psychologically, not so much. In the pursuit of happiness, psychologically matters infinitely more to me.

[flamesabers]

Then again, I also don't treat transitioning as a religion, nor the reason for my existence. I never had a dual personality, there is no male side or female side, I am just me. My hobbies have not changed, i still am the same person. I don't really get the need to try to imitate some stereotypical caricature of what a woman is supposed to spend her time doing, because I blend in just fine and most people I know don't know me as anything other than a fun girl named Sarah. (Who has some odd tastes )

Lol, I probably get along better with males just wanting boobs than I do with most trans people whom I meet. Most TGs seem to make such a huge deal about it that it ends up defining them as people. I don't want nor do I see the need for that. Maybe it's an age thing, because my fiancée is much the same, as are some of the younger trans people I've met.

I fully agree Sarah.

Even though we are at very different points in the gender spectrum, I think we have a similar perspective on the issues of gender and such. What you wrote I think is a good description of what the source of tension is really about. It's not so much about trans vs. non-trans, but rather about a clash in personality between those who regard GD/NBE as a focal part of their identity vs. those who simply consider it one of many aspects of themselves.

[spanky (aka Lola)]

Thank you, Lotus, for starting this thread. Let us be open to all who are respectful. Vive la différence!

[GOboobs]

It seems like in this age of the internet, there are people who are just looking for things to be outraged about.

If someone says they like ketchup on their hot dogs, you have people shouting at the person how mustard is what belongs on a hot dog. Then you got people shouting that they shouldn't be eating hotdogs beause they are high in fat. There's also the famous "Don't you know what's in hot dogs?" crowd. And then of course those that say you shouldn't eat hot dogs because they contain meat. And so on, and so on.

But here's the thing. Who gives a ####? Just because a person says they like ketchup on their hot dog does not mean that whatever you like on your hot dog (or your choice not to eat them) is wrong. It's a personal preference.

Likewise, just because someone chooses not to transition, does not mean your decision to transition is wrong. and vice versa. If a person goes to one subforum for information, it doesn't mean the people in the other forums are deviants and should be eradicated from the face of the earth. It simply means, the information they are looking for is in that section.

So stop looking for something to be outraged about.